Spiral Knights - What do you expect from a Vanguard?

What do you expect from a Vanguard?

29 replies [Last post]

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 09:35

Glowupball

I'm afraid I don't even know what to expect anymore from random vanguards, whether it be holding their own in vanaduke to holding their own in the sovereign slime. It's true there's still a lot to learn even after becoming vanguard, but I think there are at least some minimum things they should know or be able to do.

What do you think? (This question seems to ask for a list)

While we're on this subject, I also wonder what people expect from a guild master. Thanks in advance for your information.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:00

Blazzberry

I have no mouth and I need to scream

Knowing where their limits are, but not limiting themselves.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:08

Mystrian

Vanguard

Experience
observation
ability to adapt to any situation

This is why I believe apprentices are just as good as vangaurds.

The update involving rank and missions doesn't affect the qualities listed above.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:09

Skepticraven

↓

I expect vanguards to know who/what Vanaduke is.

Holding their own? I don't know how many sparks they have. They could be a player that burned all their crowns just to buy more sparks to finish the missions.

Guild masters? One thing. Hold the guild together. Depends on the objective of the guild past that.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:18

Holy-Nightmare

You should probably look more

You should probably look more at their amount of prestige than rank.

I as a Champion rank have more prestige than a fair amount of Vanguards, and often survive longer than they do (even when I bring 3-4 star armor and weapons).

If they have locked the full inspect then just assume the worst until they prove you worst. Once you see them not only survive but are actually trying to work with the team then you can be fairly certain they are good players.

As for GMs see Skepticraven's post

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:49

Bopp

skill varies widely

The skill of vanguards varies widely. Someone can become a Vanguard in a week, if their buddy pulls them through. But they may have no skill. Other people may be stuck grinding for energy to pull off their 5-star upgrade, and may have accumulated tremendous skill. What's good about this game is that skill trumps equipment.

Speaking for myself: When I was learning to do Firestorm Citadel, I would solo the first four levels again and again, using just Divine Avenger, until I could do it in my sleep. But I was still bad at the Vanaduke fight, until later. So, if you ran FSC with that era's Bopp, you might be impressed at first, and then disappointed. A lot of what counts as skill in this game is just memorization.

The same phenomenon comes up on the forums. There are players with 5-star equipment who don't really understand the rules of the game.

In guild masters, you should look for someone devoted to the game. Maintaining a solid, active guild takes work. If someone makes a guild on a whim, and then doesn't bother to maintain it, then the guild will be no good. Also, look for how they deal with conflict among guild members --- whether they jump to conclusions, whether they favor their friends, etc.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 10:59

Subsequent-Support

Something I tell everyone.

The gear doesn't make the player.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:05

Batabii

Common sense

Understanding how gear and weapons work

Enemy names (for example, not necessarily every KIND of retrode, but at least what a retrode is and not "that robot thing")

Monster weaknesses, resistances, and damage, as well as how to read a gate map

Knowing when NOT to use a spark

And I expect them to not use garbage gear like Aegis or Iron Slug in a real run.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:16

Poomph

"And I expect them to not use garbage gear like Aegis or Iron Slug in a real run."

Don't worry, Batabii. It'll all be over soon.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:17

Bopp

disagree

I expect them to not use garbage gear like Aegis or Iron Slug in a real run.

As long as they can pull their own weight and don't disrupt me too much (Nitronome, Shivermist spamming), I don't care what their equipment is. In fact, I'd rather see someone succeeding with Iron Slug than succeeding with Blitz Needle. Then maybe I can learn something from them.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:20

#10

Batabii

@bopp

My point is they're highly unlikely to succeed with Iron Slug (or Azure Guardian, or Winmillion, or heavy deconstructor, etc). They're dragging the team down, and they would be more effective with actual useful gear.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 11:41

#11

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Batabii, you're telling me that you'd kick me because I wield a DVS. I'd rather not play with people who do that, anyway.

If I'm being lazy, I'll die a lot, sure. But when I'm on the ball, I've come through levels without dieing once where everyone else is nearly dead or worse. At the same time, there are some weapons I will never use in a party, like BAB. It's a great solo weapon, but I know it would get a lot of people killed...

But on topic, I hope a Vanguard would show some knowledge of the game. I mean, if he doesn't, then what does that make the Vanguard? A lazy guy? Probably...

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 12:09

#12

Pdtopgun

What's wrong with Aegis?

Yeah, an Aegis doesn't give you the sword bonus of a BTS or any special status resists, but as a basic Piercing-defense shield there's nothing at all wrong with using it. (Now if you're talking about someone bringing one to Compound 42...you might have a point.) In the same vein, an Azure Guardian set doesn't give you any special damage bonuses, but given how generally useless pure armor defense is in the game, it's not like there's a huge downside to wearing it. Hell, it was the only 5-star set I had for a very long time, and I generally managed to hold my own with it. In general, I don't really care what someone is wearing or using, so long as they're generally contributing to the party and not dying every two minutes.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 12:12

#13

Addy

Generally, I don't expect

Generally, I don't expect anything of anybody, so I'm never disappointed, and sometimes, pleasantly surprised. :3 optimistic cynicism!

With the party finder, even an incredibly inexperienced player can end up lucky enough to find a party that tolerates them enough to just drag them through it, so even Vanguards have no promise of skill or knowledge. I had a Vanguard join my party recently, ask me what types of monsters we'd be fighting (it was a Flame Lash Arena: Cadaverous Clash), what equips to wear, and then asked me to look at their loadout and see if it was good. They had a Winmillion on. Conversely, though, there are many Defenders or lower I have met who are knowledgeable, respectful, and willing to learn.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 13:13

#14

Jabbzz

@Bopp I completely agree with you on the memorization point, I know JK like the back of my hand.

When I was 4* I use to grind JK to death [Solo, with a party, or with the GM of my first guild] and became effectively good with dealing with jellies. After the Battle Sprite update, in which I had been a Vanguard for 2 months, I started doing JK on elite and got my butt kicked repeatedly. But I just kept doing it and now I could do the mission on solo elite in my sleep if I needed to.

I never judge the skill of a player off the title above their name, the badge beside it, or the equipment they have. Fact is, I know many players who are Champions and are better than some Vanguards. Also, some people don't like missions or prestige and just do Clockworks/Coliseum. I personally didn't start doing prestige until about 3 months after I was a Vanguard lol. I recently went on an elite JK run and a Soldier joined me, and I instantly thought, "Well, this is gonna be interesting to watch." This person had your basic noob gear, but at least one was shadow damage. After the first depth, I realized this person knows very well what they were doing. He/she didn't get in my way the entire mission, wasn't running around clueless, wasn't setting off exploding blocks near me, or anything a "normal newbie" would do. This person was actually reading and predicting what I was planning to do and would wait for me to charge or wait to spawn the new enemies. Now this person of course could have been an alt [and probably was], but if he/she wasn't, it certainly showed that you should not judge a book by its cover.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 14:37

#15

Skyguarder

@Batabii

"My point is they're highly unlikely to succeed with Iron Slug (or Azure Guardian, or Winmillion, or heavy deconstructor, etc). They're dragging the team down, and they would be more effective with actual useful gear."

Are you saying that because you actually don't know how to use any of those gear that you mentioned?

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 14:46

#16

Mystrian

Autofire post #11
"I hope a Vanguard would show some knowledge of the game. I mean, if he doesn't, then what does that make the Vanguard? A lazy guy?"

Then that player is trolling.

Swift-Star post #6
"The gear doesn't make the player"

Equipment just means they are getting better/worse damage than you are.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 21:16

#17

Pandafishie

Bleh-lost thoughts finished for now

Vanguards:
There's many players are Vanguards who still have little knowledge on how to play the game. As expected most people just want to plow through the game ASAP, which actually isn't such a good idea imo, since they're not really getting better at it.

I've only been around since June 2013, and I'm still trying to figure out the ways still (i.e. trying out new styles-weapons ect)

Overall, I don't really expect much.

@Myst
I agree with you too, but there's many people who have no idea how to "adapt" they just spam their Puslars in every situation since it's the "best" weapon made in the game. There's lines of knowing how to play with a party, and different styles (i.e gunners vs swordies vs bombers)

@Jaba
Yes. Sort of.
Never judge the skill of a player off the title above their name, the badge beside it, or the equipment they have. Fact is, I know many players who are Champions and are better than some Vanguards. Also, some people don't like missions or prestige and just do Clockworks/Coliseum.
"Champion sounds cooler than Vanguard"
45k Badge symbolizes that they've been playing for a longer(ish) ( I guess, >don't yell at me D: )

Guild Masters:
Helpful, Kind, Patient, and Fun of course.

Here's an example of a good Guild Master.
During my time in Owsla, (6 months or so) Admonish logged in everyday (his job's hours are very early in the morning) to hang around and help out the novices and hang around the Officers just to have a good time. But if there were one officer, or a few others then he left and we took charge. Then every Saturday they have these Owsla parties where they play a bunch of games where you can win either CR or accessories if you're the winner. (sometimes other usables depending on the occasion).

Guild Masters don't have to log on everyday, but Ad's schedule works out so he can, and he enjoys helping out knights. The idea of connection is very important. This applies to officers too. People shouldn't been too reliant on just the Guild Master(s), since they're busy and can't be on 24/7. Familiarity with all members will keep it all balanced and happy.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 17:01

#18

Avenger-Of-Troy

I rarely see my guild master

and I don't really expect anything from a guild master.
Gratz, you just payed 500ce and 50kcrns. Now we expect stuff from you!

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 17:16

#19

Midnight-Dj

my 34 cents

What I expect from a vanny

-don't beg, seerusly, it is just embarrassing to beg as a proud knight of the spiral order.

-know the basics, read wiki a few hundred times and remember roughly how every weapon work and what stats a armor have.

-don't die in the first 5 minutes after entering a clockwork level, not a tall order.

-knowing fully what their weapons can do and use them at their maximum potential.

-never stall, always be on the move and don't get lost.

-knows exactly what to bring on GW, RJP, IMF and FSC.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 19:04

#20

Jabbzz

@Pandafishie

You seem to have forgot the "I" part in front of that "Never" Mish xD and yes I know. But I have been in the game for over 2 years and I still don't have the 25k prestige badge yet [very close tho] And the reason behind that is, (1) I played up to half 3*/4* armor than took a 9 month break, and (2) while I was completing the missions, I didn't do the prestige along with it. Even when I was done with the main missions I didn't start prestige for a good while.

Many players have been in the game longer than me and don't have the little horse badge beside their name, simply because they left the game for a while and then came back. You have actually been in the the game less time than me, and you have the 45k badge xD. It really just shows that you diligently did prestige everyday and are experienced, and been around the block a couple times.

. . . and yes Champion does sound cooler than Vanguard.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 19:25

#21

Pandafishie

@Jaba
It's close enough, and I was in a hurry.
Aww dankes Jare. I'ma baby, but hey what doesn't kill me makes me stranger...and shows that I have #nolife. I didn't start doing prestige until a few months after the BS update. That danger event really boosted the prestige count. Now that I'm a full grown pony I can sit back and just wait until the events like these come along to do the prestige for.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 19:33

#22

Draycos

I don't 'expect' much, besides that they use at least decent gear and don't do silly things like knock enemies out of allies' attacks. Taking damage doesn't matter until they have to use a Spark.

Most of the time, I'm more concerned about how well I'm playing!

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 21:51

#23

Pepperonius

@Batabii

Are ye Serious?

I guarantee you, I can hold my own with my Iron slug and and either a Levi or a Sudaruska. Heck, I may even bring an EV with me for kicks, too. Fact is, Batabii, you are still hung up on perfect gear. After this long playing the game, anyone using the most efficient gear must be BRUTAL to still need it. I'm surprised you haven't branched out yet, and tried something sub-par, at least for something to do... Live a little, Larry. You'd be amazed.

Wed, 05/07/2014 - 22:50

#24

Vatarian

-The ability to dodge basic

-The ability to dodge basic attacks, unless they have severe lag or low framerate.
-Basic understanding of utilizing enemy weaknesses and tactics to make things easier. Example, waiting for a Howlitzer to begin the firing animation then immediatly circling it and attacking it.
-Ability to work coherently as a team-member and make inferences on what needs to be done, such as freezing an enemy to reduce its mobility or distracting it to give me or someone else an opening.
-Decent gear. Unless you're one of those people that can solo FSC on Elite with proto-gear, you should have armor, shielding, and weaponry that's atleast somewhat appropriate to the situation you're in. Please don't bring your Archeron to a Slag-fight.

I'm also completely aware that I'm not anywhere near the model Vanguard. I'm laggy, impatient, and I occasionally do something really stupid or miscalculate and screw things up.

Thu, 05/08/2014 - 06:02

#25

Altmetal

rank

Most of the stuff has been summed up above: dodging/staying alive, knowing enemies/spawn locations/map parts, having decent equip/xp, being a good team player/person in general.

Vanguard rank doesn't rly mean a thing. Nor does prestige, IF the player doesn't have too much. Obviuosly ppl w/ +200k points know something about the game. But as it has been said earlier, there are players who don't do/not interested in missions, so they may be of lower ranks, but are still a way better companion like the "typical" azure-clones... not saying those guys automatically suck, (man, I've seen so many "vanguards" w/ all thier fancy uv-d equip, and yet FAILING terribly) but you know, there are just better stuff in the game to get than that.

Thu, 05/08/2014 - 06:05

#26

Hellscreams-Forum

@OP

Free gifts...

Thu, 05/08/2014 - 06:11

#27

Red-Galaxy

I would expect them to throw

I would expect them to throw a party in a guildhall and act like me

Thu, 05/08/2014 - 09:37

#28

Batabii

@autofire
DVS is not a bad weapon. I use it myself from time to time.

@pdtopgun
OK let's say you don't use swords a lot. Then Ironmight Plate Shield has far more normal defense AND stun resist, or Savage Tortoise has far more piercing defense AND shock AND poison resistance, and even Royal Jelly Shield has more piercing and stun resist (and yes, useless sleep resist). All of those shields have the same total defense as Aegis, and they resist statuses too! Besides, most people make Aegis not because of its stats, but because they're lazy and it's the only shield that has a free recipe (which by the way is HALF the cost of the Eternal Orbs they waste)

@skyguarder
NO. I'm saying even a skilled player is gimping himself with bad gear. Are you going to try to tell me that cautery blade is somehow as good as nightblade?

@perronius
see above. And for the record, since I have 71 eternal orbs, I WILL eventually be making every 5* weapon in the game.

Thu, 05/08/2014 - 09:40

#29

Shadowstarkirby

Honestly...

I don't expect anything more from Vanguards than I do from any other player. It wouldn't be surprising if people didn't even look at their title or prestige or whatever cause it doesn't tell you if they're good or not.

What I expect from anyone is not to be a jerk, dying many times runs where you're well equipped, and begging. Not a lot to ask. Fortunately, rarely do I encounter a person among these lines, so it's all good.

As for guild masters, it's expected that you're loyal to the guild and that you take care and interact with the members, that's the biggest thing. Being a generally good natured person and hosting fun events to keep members interested, and spending time with the members themselves will make them love you and the guild as it shows that you care.

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What do you expect from a Vanguard?