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How I think shields should work

10 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:59
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Why?? The shields are fine!

As I like to tell people, there are currently only 4 real options for shields:

Swiftstrike Buckler = best offenses period
Barb Thorn Shield = cover all of the things w/ eh resistance. Good for swordies?
Omega Shell = best non-specific resistances etc.
Defensive Shield = GOTTA CRAFT EM ALL, except then you have holes in your defenses... D:

This is a problem because the relative costs of crafting each of the above don't compare, the system as a whole isn't transparent, and no one wants to spend much time on their shield, because shields are kind of boring most of the time.

To elaborate:

costs
Swifstrike costs around 20K crowns, or one 3* item
Barb thorn shields is 1 5* item + extra for recipe costs b/c boss recipes
Omega shell is 1 5* item
Defending against the specific thing on a level is 3-5 5* items at least, 10+ at most.

Each of these represents an equally valid path through the game's shielding system from the perspective of someone crafting their first set of gear, someone that doesn't have time to mess around making shields. It punishes them for choosing to defend against the correct thing by making them grind for it.

transparency
Lets say I have.. dread skelly shield and grey owlite shield, and I'm up against construct + ice. Which do I bring? The ice resistant shield or the elemental shield? This should be clear to me. Lets say I'm looking through and I see heater shield and grey owlite shield. How on earth do I know which one is better? What does the lack of normal defense on dragon scale shield even do? Can I get a frost UV on my heater shield for added benefit?

All of these and more should be answered before you make your decision, so that you can indeed make your decision to find the best-fit shield.

Shields are boring
When I was new, I had all of 2 or 3 shields. The one from vanaduke, because I had trouble with fiends, the swifstrike buckler because it was cheap and effective, and the barb thorn shield. But I had around... 12-15 4* weapons, because they were cool and interesting. Each weapon I crafted made me stronger, and there was a tangible feeling to it. Shields aren't like that- if I have an almire shield and I craft a skelly shield... well, good for me. Now I'm slightly more optimal. Does it do something cool? Nope. It does the same thing... but now I can use it on poison/ice levels. That blows.

Exactly how to fix this

First, a new philosophy. Each player should want to craft all of the shields, because each new shield should add something to their arsenal that is new and creative that lets them play a certain way. Something akin to the following:

Line one:
Swiftstrike > 5* swiftstrike

  • 3* = low ASI + low bomb ctr
  • 5* = high ASI + high ctr for bombs
  • Keeps current defenses throughout, making it harder to craft

    • Line two: Barb Thorn shield

  • Same normal defense as currently has
  • No more piercing defenses
  • Slight bit of extra HP; like omega

    • Line three: Gunnerous Thorn Shield

  • Same as barb thorn shield, but with handgun damage instead

    • Line Four: Bomberous Thorn Shield

  • Same as barb thorn except it has CTR->med for bombs instead of damage

    • Line Five: Pure defenses

  • One grey owlite's elemental defense + piercing defense + shadow defense
  • All status resists
  • Description telling the player that it resists bullets best

    • Line Six: Normal defense

  • 1/3 as much elemental/shadow/piercing resistance as other shields
  • A massive amount of normal defense
  • All status resistances
  • Description telling the player that it defends melee attacks and furniture best

    • Line Seven: The guardian

  • One grey owlite shield's elemental worth of elemental/shadow/normal/piercing
  • All status resistances
  • A bit of extra health
  • Some drawback, like negative asi: low + negative bomb ctr low + negative damage: low + negative msi: low
  • Description telling player of drawbacks that are worth it, heavy shield

    • Lines Eight, Nine and Ten: The hybrids

  • Slightly less resistance than class shields defensively
  • Some combination of handgun damage: med, sword damage: med and bomb CTR: med
  • Whichever one is NOT supported receives a negative high; e.g. +sword/gun damage med, -bomb ctr high

    • Line Eleven: Tortodrone

  • Negative MSI tradeoff for cool bash effect, as usual
  • Moderate other defenses; i.e. midway point of lines five and six

    • Line Twelve: Tortodrone Swiftstrike

  • Negative MSI tradeoff for cool bash effect, as usual
  • Otherwise same as swiftstrike

    • Disclaimer: I made up these stats on the spot. These are just examples of how I want to see this played out, so if something is slightly off I'll fix it.

    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:41
    #1
    Deludere
    A False Belief

    Good suggestion, lines 5-7 seem OP and lines 8-10 seem UP. Tweeking and such needed. I still don't see how this makes shields that much more interesting though.
    +0.5

    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:34
    #2
    Zeddy's picture
    Zeddy

    I agree that shields should be more interesting, but the solution is not to let half the shields compliment your weapons through stats.

    Shields should be interesting in their own right. Here are some ideas:

    • Swiftstrike Buckler
        Renamed to Swiftstep Buckler.
        Given a 3*-5* line, ASI bonus removed. When you press the shield bash button, you get a second dash. The dash length increases with star rank.
    • Scarlet Shield
        Given a 3*-5* line. When you press the shield bash button, Scarlet Shield will break and use Heart Attack. This ability has a 30-second cooldown unrelated to shield health, but cannot be used unless the shield is at full health. The chance of heart drops and radius increase with rank.
    • Aegis
        Defends against all damage types and statuses.
    • Skelly/Jelly/Owlite
        Unchanged stat-wise. The shields will not flinch from defending light attacks they're specialized against. Torto shields are given a similar treatment.
    • Plate Shield
        Defends against all damage types and statuses in greater amount. There is a slow animation for raising and lowering the shield, ruining the shield's shield-cancelling capabilities.

        However, the shield will not flinch from any light attack.

    • Omega Shell
        Like plate shield, but with much more extra health, slower animation, and MSD medium.

        Omega Shell will not flinch from any attack.

    • Magnet Shield
        Above average elemental defence. The magnet shield will attract elemental bullets when active, allowing the user to defend nearby teammates. However, this tends to put its user in danger.
    • Barbarous Thorn Shield
        Sword bonus removed. Shield bash inflicts significant piercing damage equivalent to the final lunge in the charge attack of Final Flourish.
    • Laser Disc
        Elemental equivalent of Barbarous Thorn Shield. When you press the shield bash button, the laser disc gets thrown in an arc like a boomerang. The damage is weaker than that of BTS.
    • Evil Hand Thing
        Shadow equivalent of BTS. When you press the shield bash button, the shield spawns a giant, dark hand that picks up a single enemy and lets you move them around and throw them when you press the button again. The damage is equivalent of BTS, but you also inflict regular shield bash damage on enemies that get your target thrown into them.
    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:57
    #3
    Skepticraven's picture
    Skepticraven
    ↓

    Shields do need a change.
    I think playing around with shield HP (as there is currently no difference with the exception of the Omega shell line) should play an important role with shields. Shield recharge time should also play a role (defensive ones recharge significantly faster). Even some armors could be changed to include shield charge rates.

    Shankles deal quite a bit of pure damage, and yet a 3* shield will still block all of 1 attack no matter what the damage type on depth 28.

    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:12
    #4
    Cinoa's picture
    Cinoa
    @Zeddy

    Like that, Aegis would be a non-cherub shield ring thing.

    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 12:31
    #5
    Fehzor's picture
    Fehzor

    The thought did cross my mind that shields should have actual tangible things different with them aside from statistics, but I tried to stick with what the basic shields should be using the existing mechanics. More shields could be added on later, and they could easily have cool mechanics like you described-- especially the heart attack. Shield recharge rate would be another good factor to alter with these kinds of things, and I could easily see that becoming an important gameplay, but again it isn't coded directly as a stat, so I didn't include it.

    The big thing that I wanted to do was to make it so that your first shield could be any of them and you'd be fine for all content, no extra shields needed. Then, the next shield you craft should be different so that you'd still want for them all... if you made a defensive shield, you'd want to try out the risky swiftstrike, or you'd want to make one of the other defensive shields- which all defend against different types of attacks/with different tradeoffs.

    @Deludere

    If I'm using handguns and swords and not bombs, then I'd want the handgun+sword buff shield over the handgun or sword buff shield.. but if I give it less resistance, then there is still a choice for the hybrid. They should be balanced according to one another for this case, and you shouldn't expect a net gain unless you're willing to give up on a weapon type somewhere-- that's what swifstrike would be for, though that would be incredibly weak to defend with compared to even the hybrid shield with no way to redeem itself through variants etcetera.

    Sun, 05/25/2014 - 18:33
    #6
    Welux's picture
    Welux
    +1

    For me personally, i only have the BTS for when i got through HoH, and the 2 Torto shields because they were cool.
    I haven't used those shields consistently for more than one level in probably a few months.
    Why? Well, because if you are decent at dodging, why use anything other than a Swift Strike Buckler?

    Theres really no reason not to unless you're being bombarded by attacks, such as the gun puppy danger room.
    Having shields that not only buff you by giving you damage bonuses or whatever.
    But shields that have many different attributes. For example;

    Say you get a Grand Tortoise. Normal damage protection isnt too good atm, but it has a very large amount of health, you shield a bit slower, can shield bump enemies further, and, when it breaks you get a 90 degree ark of protection that remains. Meaning if the shield is broken, it can still block direct, oncoming hits. Not only that, but when you're shield isn't broken, it can tank hits more effectively that are hitting you head on, rather from the back or sides.

    And with the buckler. You can take one hit, and you raise your shield rather quickly, and you still get that ark of 90 degree protection, but can only take one more hit, and after that, you'd be pushed back, stunned, or staggered. Along with the shield bump is very weak, only sending and enemy a few inches away, and not sending larger enemies, such as a lumber, more than an inch away.

    But yeah, OOO should definitely make having a wide assortment of shields much more rewarding.

    Mon, 05/26/2014 - 06:17
    #7
    Captainshockwave's picture
    Captainshockwave
    Flappy Pancakes

    Just wanted to point something out. When the energetic orb your electric shield creates to surround you from every edge dies. What stops you from using the actual shield part? I mean, you should be able to aim it and block a shot or two.

    Mon, 05/26/2014 - 07:17
    #8
    Skepticraven's picture
    Skepticraven
    @Fehzor

    They should have shield regen values as modifiable, as a seraphynx ultimate can modify that value.

    Mon, 05/26/2014 - 18:17
    #9
    Fehzor's picture
    Fehzor

    Maybe they do have it working as you would want, but neither of us really knows for sure. It could be badly implemented and only then as a sprite skill. It does seem like it'd be very easy for them to make and add as a value for shields like we'd want, and I'd definitely love for them to use it while balancing, but I'm not going to take any chances and write about it.

    Tue, 05/27/2014 - 05:00
    #10
    Flame-Shinobi's picture
    Flame-Shinobi
    +1

    Sheilds need more love <3

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