Spiral Knights - Heart Trinkets in every color! (Okay, not really 'every'...)

Heart Trinkets in every color! (Okay, not really 'every'...)

11 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 08:34

Autofire

After thinking about it for a long time, I've finally come to a conclusion: It's not Weapons or Classes that make LD unbalanced. Indeed, many of them would probably be balanced according to this, with the exception of a few specific weapons, like Cutters, Shard Bombs, and Winmillion.

However, there is one thing which just makes it very...unbalanced. That is: Heart Trinkets. No drawbacks are on them. At all. I can put on two, in fact, and I only get benefits. There are few things I would want to trade them for, and those things could be 'easily' obtained through UVs. (Looking at you, modules.)

So, changes I think should be made:

Compassionate Penta Heart Trinket: 6HP, Attack Damage Decrease: Medium (red)
Iron Penta Heart Trinket: 6HP, Movement Speed Decrease: Medium (silver)
Merciful Penta Heart Trinket: 6HP, Charge Time Decrease: Medium, Attack Speed Decrease: Medium (blue)

1-4* trinkets, should be the same as they are now but with damage decrease: low.

Current Penta Heart Trinkets would become Compassionate Penta Heart Trinkets.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 09:57

Dibsville

Wouldn't this further promote damage-based armor rather than make defensive armors more useful, thus decreasing balance to the game overall..

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 11:17

Holy-Nightmare

Just cut them from pvp to

Just cut them from pvp to restore our former balance.....

problem solved with no need for creating new content..

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 11:34

Fehzor

I think I like OOO' current approach better: Take the entire facet of the game and redo it.

I like this better for a reason- there are much bigger issues with heart trinkets and abilities than simply lockdown... they create uneven difficulty, uneven buffs, make having straight up defense far less viable, and make "playing defensively" one and the same as playing any other way. Instead of sitting down and tweaking things slowly and surely, it would be far better to just redo all of it at once. Giving trinkets disadvantages isn't the worst idea, but should be done after fixing armor problems on the whole.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:44

Fangel

I'll channel Seiran real quick

Heart trinkets are overpowered as strikers, as they have low starting health. Guardians have a gun weakness, and recons have a sword weakness.
People assume strikers are the only class for whatever reason. A good guardian can shut down strikers, and a good recon can play keep-away and wear the striker out. But it's much harder to be a good guardian or recon than it is to be a good striker.

Heart trinkets delay the inevitable. As a striker, that delay may save your life. As a recon or guardian, it will be much better to focus on other boosts. Since strikers dominate lockdown, those with a health penalty will be hit hard while those without a heart penalty will survive several fights.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:52

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Most

I see what you mean. So I guess this is sorta a bandaid fix...

@Fangel

True. That is actually what prompted me to make this. It wasn't that our skill was different -- indeed, I would probably knock most flat with my current build if heart trinkets didn't exist. The problem is that I'm not necessarily dedicated to LD enough to try to get (and sustain the slots for) Heart Trinkets, but I don't like the fact that I get the short end of the stick for it.

But that's just me, as a recon. I bet that other, newer knights shy away from LD because they're so heavily outclassed.

(Honestly, I think I could become a better player due to my lack of trinkets, but I don't quite have the motivation play LD that much.)

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:53

Exerpa

Build a time machine and

Build a time machine and prevent True love lockets from ever being thought up.

That is all.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 18:05

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Builds time machine.

Steps inside.

Turns inside out before exploding.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 00:49

Avihr

Box

Nerfing Heart pendants by adding such disadvantage on them would make the people rage IMO, even if it is just a slight disadvantage, and i would not blame them.
the other problem is that, like You said, Heart pendants offer something that you can stack as much as you want, unlike damage bonuses or whatever stuff other trinkets can provide... lets look at the other options for a second:

Damage resistance? useless, hearts do way better.

Status resistance is actually not that a bad choice because statuses can be VERY annoying, but the protection they offer is not that great anyway, so having 6 more health points will be a better choice than a mere +2 status resist (is it even that much?), if they would be like maximum resist you would definitely see people choosing them over heart pendants.

Damage/CTR/ASI Bonuses can all be obtained through UV's or armor bonuses and in most cases can easily be maxed out without the need of trinkets.

So yeah, OOO should rather adress other issues rather than just nerfing heart trinkets... like removing the limitations of defenses or actually making them worth something. coughcoughBuffTheOtherUselessTrinketscoughcough

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 08:05

Kathrine-Dragon

Scratch that, man. Guardians:

Scratch that, man. Guardians: 120 defense all around. Recon: 100 defense all around. Striker: 70 defense all around (or less). Here's my reasoning: guardians are meant to tank yet they receive the exact same amount of damage as everyone else. They should be given more defense along with extra health because without the defense a guardian will die in 2-4 GF hits, but with the extra defense (and I doubt I have the correct number for extra defense) a guardian can tank more hits while losing fewer pips. Not proportionally but actually fewer pips. Strikers are glass cannons. Not glass cannons with extra HP but glass cannons. Meaning that with less defense, regardless of how much extra HP they have they should only tank 2 hits minimum ("sonic mode") or about 4 hits maximum from a GF.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 16:54

#10

Holy-Nightmare

It is frustrating when you

It is frustrating when you hit a Snarby striker 5 times with a Dark thorn blade (lvl10) and they don't die. Strikers should die in 2-3 hits but now (when they have hp trinkets) you can deathmark them and they still can tank up to 4 of your hits.

I don't have problem with status or defense trinkets (though a shockproof skolver can be annoying to those who rely on shock), you can still die to the right weapon in 2-3 hits as a striker.

HP trinkets are overpowered trinkets in comparison to the rest.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 17:37

#11

Fangel

Oh that's something interesting that you bring up

The fact that deathmarking someone can be partially negated via heart trinkets has never really occurred to me for whatever reason, but that is a truly valid complaint opposed to the typical ones.
Would it be fair if players who have been deathmarked have their trinkets temporarily disabled? It would make the recon truly more helpful to team-play while essentially being a striker "nerf" (however, it's really a nerf to teams without recons).
Alternatively, maybe players that enter an enemy guardian's shield range has their trinkets disabled in the same format?

As it has been discussed before, trinkets are one of the things that creates a massive imbalance between the different classes. Striker benefits the most from trinkets from my experience, and so the other classes should be able to counter that. I think being able to disable trinkets (temporarily in combat) would actually attribute to a more fair game. It would also make strikers more careful around recons, as once they are deathmarked, they are massively crippled. (If a striker has under the trinket's boost of health, they wouldn't be affected by this trinket changing deathmark. If they used ASI trinkets however, they would attack slower for a few seconds)

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Heart Trinkets in every color! (Okay, not really 'every'...)