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new line instead of acheron

19 replies [Last post]
Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:53
Jungle-Sword's picture
Jungle-Sword

I thought of this new sword as an exchange for acheron, because acheron is just DAMN OP!
the 'demon' sword line
2* = normal brandish
3* = demon's trident: A black/red/purple trident which can deal curse from the charge shot
It hits just like a normal brandish
It deals shadow damage
minor chance of dealing curse
charge: Exact same as wrench wand instead of an energy bolt, a trident would 'fly' out, because brandish charges are very strong and big so this charge would be a better version, I believe
(buff: wrench wand charge is pretty slow, I'd like it if it would go faster, same here then with this charge)
4* = demon's mace: A black/red/purple big mace
(everything like 3*, just a mace during the charge and moderate chance of dealing curse)
5* demons claw = a stick with a big 'claw attached to it (again red/black/purple, a claw instead of a mace and high chance of dealing curse)

Now, we would take the acherons/nightblades away and 'replace' them with the equivalent star of this new 'demon' weapon
The recipes will also be bought at sylvin, not at echo.

We only have 2 weapons which can deal curse at the moment, that isn't much if you ask me so I think this would be a nice 'add' for curse
I know that OOO is busy with gunner update (or I think so) but I would like it a lot if this could be added (if its even technically possible, could be that its not possible at all)

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:13
#1
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

I had something here, but then I realized it was a pretty dumb idea.

Why can't we just have a delete post function. T^T

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:29
#2
Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder

So this is basically acheron with curse slapped onto it?

This doesn't really solve the balance between Acheron and Gran Faust.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:46
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Not every suggestion has to be about acheron and gran faust. Its not the worst idea. I'd prefer we get a normal or elemental or piercing curse something or another, just because.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 14:54
#4
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
I hate to be the bringer of sour objections. However...

1) You do not simply turn a sword into a trident.

2) A trident's design is strictly built on the idea of jabbing and impaling. That would be a piercing weapon over anything else.

3) You do not simply turn a trident into a mace.

4) By extension, you do not turn a weapon line's general properties from normal to heavy, nor shift its damage specialty from normal to piercing to normal in this or any other order.

6) You do not simply turn a mace into a claw.

7) By extension, you do not turn a weapon line's general properties from heavy to lightweight.

8) You DO NOT simply allow a weapon to inflict Curse.

9) You DO NOT, under any circumstances whatsoever within a game carrying online playerbase that invests on making and purchasing weapons, replace a weapon's entire line out of the game with something else entirely.

10) This resolves nothing at all in practice or in conclusion.

The only reasonable approach to replacing the Nightblade line I can currently think of would be to make the line in question its very own, perhaps with a new and different charge attack*, and put up a Poison Brandish line instead**. Otherwise there will invariably be far too much inconsistence and damage that will impact on the game's growth and players' overall experience.

* (A rough suggestion would be opting for a close focus on swift, singular slicing, something more in line with the blade's sharp and light appearance.)

** (Ideally along with taking up the weapon requirement for the Obsidian Edge, due to the general purpose and shape of both weapons being distinctively similar.)

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:00
#5
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

To be fair, Curse isn't much except against Silkwings, since Fire does more overall damage usually and is a lot more reliable and safe and less glitchy.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:34
#6
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Lately I've come to believe that status effects and resistances need some sort of revision.

As of now however, there is no reason for curse to be kept away as some kind of super status, as if it crushes everything in its wake-- this is simply not the case. I suspect it gets its reputation as such from how the developers have treated it as a rare and special status effect; i.e there are no curse themed levels and very few curse themed enemies, only faust has curse. If the developers are set on treating it as some sort of special super status, I would have to recommend some sort of buffs for it.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:56
#7
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

Well Curse is a horrible thing on players if you don't have weapon slots.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 18:26
#8
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Box

Curse does poorly when compared to other statuses on PvE, i think that curse was originally intended to be restricted to monsters because of how it works, cursing your weapons/items and lasting about 40 seconds, it does better against knights than it does against a monster wich will most likely die in about 5-10 seconds vs a knight, unless it's a boss. (Wich would only be jelly king as vanaduke cannot be cursed, then both RT and Snarbolax are immune to all kinds of damage while they're attacking)

So yes, curse is kind of a super status... against a player(Who lacks any kind of curse resistance or weapon slots btw)... It would definitely cripple and bother any unlucky knight who gets cursed, even kill him it he isn't careful. On the other hand, For PvE, the mechanics of the status are not very efficient or even practial, like Sandwitch-Potato said, there's other statuses that do better at dealing damage on a more effective way, curse could use a buff... like monsters refusing to attack a knight and running away while cursed (wich would fit gremlins quite alot) Just something that justifies the self-curse and painful charge of a GF for that matter. (or the rarity of a curse vial)

As for the OP:

GOD PLEASE NO

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 18:59
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Curse is not that great of a status against the player either, largely because of how easily it is spotted and resisted.

I know exactly where all of the curse statuses are hiding, and I can resist them. As long as I have a single weapon available after being cursed, I am basically immune to the status effect, as I can just not use the cursed weapons and vials. To accomplish this, the big thing that I have to do is purchase a single weapon slot upgrade, and use it, or I can bring 5 or more curse resistance. I might be slightly defective for half a minute, but I'm still at full force with my single weapon, able to move about freely, heal, defend myself, and I won't be taking any extra damage unless I'm a klutz, which is really on me. Compared to other statuses, this really isn't such a big deal.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 20:35
#10
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

But what if you DON'T have another weapon slot or Curse resistance? What if you're lagging into a Phantom bullet? You're effectively completely helpless besides your Battle Sprite of all things for half a minute, or more. Can't even shield bash sometimes, and there's no way to tell if that was cursed.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 23:32
#11
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Oh no! I might have to *gasp* dodge attacks for 55 seconds!

But really though? If I'm going to FSC I know better than to wear full valkyrie mail. Similarly, if I'm using faust or going to uFSC, then I know about it and if I get cursed and am stuck with nothing its my own fault. Its the easiest status to dodge, and by the time I'm ready to face it I've got everything at my disposal. You could be cursed on graveyards, but none of the encounters there are tight arena type places, and the biggest threat aside from phantoms are slags. Just run around and shield.

Have you been having trouble with the curse status?

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 07:06
#12
Jungle-Sword's picture
Jungle-Sword
well anyway

I don't want this thread to be a topic about curse, plz make another one if you want to do argue about curse
@melonfish: I guess so, maybe I shouldn't change a sword into a trident and so on, but SK could use something new if you ask me

@sky: yeah I forgot to mention that this 'version of acheron' would be weaker then the acheron atm. I thought something like the dmg that acheron did before the buff

little remark about curse:
- in PvE:
as fehzor said, wow you have to dodge for max 55secs, not so horrible if you ask me and inflicting curse on monsters (jellies, grems) CAN be useful but not always.
- in PvP
You can always go to the healing pad and heal your curse. Not horrible either
anyways, lets get back to topic and thx fehzor for not being negative about this ^^

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 08:16
#13
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Every time anyone suggests any kind of curse related gear, this comes up. Sadly, discussing why curse isn't just the strongest thing of all time is a part of discussing curse related gear.

We would take the acherons/nightblades away and 'replace' them with the equivalent star of this new 'demon' weapon.

Why do this over adding the new weapons in separately?

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 12:10
#14
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Box

Because "OmgAcheronsoOPplzdeleteomghalpTheyrepwningmeonLDanditsuckssss"

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 12:25
#15
Melonfish's picture
Melonfish
Not much room for axes, I'm afraid.

@Jungle-Sword The idea and concept of lances/spears/jousts have been around since a few months after the game's release. To my knowledge, that's the top suggestion for new swords.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 18:24
#16
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

@Fehzor

I don't have any trouble whatsoever with the curse status.

55 seconds can be quite a while for people who don't dodge, or are trying for a speedrun. Certainly more annoying than something like Poison.

Despite whatever your prior knowledge about curse is, a large amount of players are so unfamiliar with Curse that they just keep attacking while Cursed and then wonder how they died. I'd thank you to not imply me being one of those people, however.

Also, Curses have a mental connection to shadows and sinister rituals and demonic, foul, pastries, not glorping jellies or large pieces of metal, so I'd rather they stay as Shadow, rather than Piercing/Elemental/Normal damage. But that's just me.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 19:28
#17
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Actually relevant: "Curse must be shadow"

I'd envision non shadow curse as like a stabbing motion from a dark blade. That way, it does piercing AND curse status. Or it could be like a sinister mechanical device that shoots dark missiles that deal elemental + curse.

The actual suggestion above could fit well in with the piercing variant. The real problem though is that fiends all tend to resist curse, and it would fall partially in with our friend flamberg and formerly ionized salt bomb, who dealt piercing damage with a slime bonus. This could be solved by making some new fiend enemies that are weak to fire and curse status. In fact, I think that's really what the game needs to help balance all of the weapons more than anything. More enemies that are actually weak to odd statuses. More fiends weak to stun/fire/curse, more undead weak to curse/ice/poison, gremlins that resist poison but are weak to fire, all of that deserves a place.

Less relevant: "but... but new players! They just spam and die! Curse is the worst-"

Because the new players don't die to literally everything else before learning how to cope with it. For real, I've seen them. They go to the jelly king... die. Anywhere outside of T1 and they're toast. I even used to be like that, before I got good. They'll learn, or quit the game I suppose.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 20:38
#18
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

The point being Curse kills them a lot darn quicker than many other statuses would, and most people prefer to be alive, so they can actually do stuff.

Wouldn't a dark blade stabbing still be shadow? And I don't really see how a sword stabbing would be piercing, unless the tip was needle-thin or such.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 15:51
#19
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Let's see...

What are the sources of curse? There are phantoms(shadow damage), carnavons(shadow damage), black kats(shadow damage), curse vials(shadow damage), faust+gran faust(shadow damage), Dread Velvet(piecing), and Darkfire Vanaduke(elemental).

We see a large amount of curse comes from shadow damage monsters, and even then shadow monsters are mostly immune to curse (Grievers and howltzers are the only ones I can think of that aren't immune to curse), and the only two non-shadow sources of curse are either behind an event (arguably, the black kats are too) or part of a bonus mission(arguably, carnavons are too, but it is possible for one to spawn in a candlestick keep), both of which are either mostly shadow themed or mostly a not-curse status themed.

I'd like to see curse stay with shadow damage myself. There's only one curse/piercing resistant armor as of right now anyways, so I'd like to see the silvermail set finished before we make curse spread to other damage types.

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