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A thread regarding the state of Spiral knights.

7 replies [Last post]
Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:33
Caelestis-Songbird

Hey guys, this has been in my mind for a week or two, and I just can't get around to writing this down, but hopefully now at the time (and probably the worst) I'm wanting to write at what's going on with the game, what is wrong with the game, and why oh why are they releasing constant barrage of cosmetics when clearly they could at least add proper, replayable content in the game and maybe at least fix a few to make the game fun again, while almost tired and can hardly think, I'll write what I can before I expire, here I go

Firstly, what is going on with all the cosmetics you're showering with? As if the game wasn't drowning with all it has, it's stagnating because of the lack of CONTENT the game has, all it has is Vanaduke, daily prestiege missions, only 4 of them, and an occaisional trip to the arcade, and the only way you can get to these new cosmetics is grinding a ton to get at or simply pay out for them. Sure Valve does it but to me it's legit enough because of the replayability's supported itself to keep players distracted before the hat prices decrease, whereas in spiral knights it's more or less become a market and a lot is spent on cosmetics and best resources, and getting to them requires a lot of grinding, and that means a lot of trips to the vanaduke, over and over again, which you might as well pay out in order to get at it, shameless, it is.

Second, what is going on? these UVs are also driven with the constant drive for grinding, and even then as soon as they get maxed, it's pretty much over for other people, people who just got into lockdown (which I don't play, so may or not support me argument), needing to find out if they want to keep up, they're needing UVs too, especially attack speed increases, sure defense buffs are fine (like armour doesn't exist anyway), but if you're gonna rush in with max UVs, it'll mean that the person will have to grind on hours on end just to get the same buffs. At Tf2, all weapons are balanced without upgradable kinks to make them more stronger (okay maybe some, but it'll take some risk to get the ball going), I feel like Uvs are simply mandatory for high tier play and just isn't worth the fun getting to the end wasting so much of it all.

Third, ARMOUR. whenever I do spectate into lockdown, I see so many people run in using skolver/vog cub etc, and seem to be the superior class to use in lockdown, hardly do I see a pure bomber or gunner actually doing any effect vs melee strikers. they just seem to blitz and able to do everything the other two can, but better, sometimes even using all three at once and putting them to shame! from after what I've seen from gunner updates with the needle class, it was horrifying, I knew it was going to cause a stir, so why not have that speed buff apply to gunners? Yes, have it ridiculously slow for people who don't wear gunner armour and make it fast and flexible for people who exclusively wear armour so gunners can stand a chance vs melee users or make it a triangle with the striker>gunner>Demomen. Also the guardian armour is hardly ever because if they're supposed to be tanks, couldn't they at least have a damage reduction buff to compensate for their cumbersomeness? if they want to keep attention drawn to them, make them THE GUARDIAN, not a slow guy with only a powerful strike. for me I'd reccomend armour that are tailored to their specific class, and make them less effective on other forms of attack, like how Runescape's armour worked before the evolution of combat update. Make them proper classes with their strengths and shortcomings, changing their armour to suit their armour, take a bit of research on mobas, tanks, and maybe TF2 as well, so the Spiral knights doesn't end up being a hyper offensive generic skolver metagame.

Fourth, REPLAYABILITY. It's always fun to play more of the game, explore more of the clockworks and learn about it's lore, but when you get to vanguard, the fun stops there. You've got the prestiege missions, but after a few, your only way of income is knocking on Vanaduke's door and raid him. He's sad! He's depressed because you keep rummaging in his tomb, he's suffering because his empire fell and under the delusion his castle's under attack, but being constantly raided for the best income, he's suffered enough! can't there be some more missions or tasks that can match or if not beat that of Vanaduke's? maybe a trip down to the clockworks because a bunch of knights needs defending from waves of monsters, or fetch quests or crowns can be motivating and a fun change of pace from the constant raiding of the Firestorm Citadel. NOT COSMETICS, WE NEED MORE CONTENT, cosmetics are NOT content at this point, they are filler, sugar coating on a stagnating game because it does not have high replayability content beyond vanguard. give some knights to do that isn't just raiding the clockworks, give them some tasks to do, like minigames to kill their time and make their trips to the clockworks worth it!

that's all I can write for now, I'm off to bed, hopefully I can reiterate and maybe answer questions if I can, night guys.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:55
#1
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

This thread again?

witty_pertaining_picture.png

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 19:13
#2
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Box

Will we make threads like these every day and every month and every year even though i'ts been made countless times and people are tired of them?

YEP

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 19:21
#3
Kathrine-Dragon's picture
Kathrine-Dragon

It's funny. Literally the only reason I don't pure bomb a lot is because of Polaris. I don't mind AP or Valiance but Polaris knocks me around, stops my charging, and shocks me. My main complaint is getting interrupted, which messes up most of my fun in LD. And yes, I'm the vog recon that spams Glacius charges, Sentenza, and Nitronome.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 19:59
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

We can either come here and beat the opening poster up for not doing their research, or we can learn something and passively mention that the OP's complaint has been mentioned around ten times in the last month. For instance-

"Sure Valve [spams promotions constantly to milk its players] but to me it's legit enough because of the [large replayability value found within Team Fortress and Dota that functions] to keep players distracted before the [game begins to lose traction due to lack of developer content], whereas in Spiral Knights [the game ends abruptly with endless grinding centered almost exclusively around costumes and unique variants, in spite of content made directly for endgame players; i.e. danger missions]."

The OP is very much correct in this regard and brings up a very good point, even if it is a much exhausted one. No grand counsel of players or game developers for that matter is about to change this basic fact, and bringing it up repeatedly until it is eventually solved could quite possibly be in the best interest of the game.

Should a developer come here and read this, what would you hope for them to get from it? I have in the past suggested a level editor, which would be divine, but an endless arena, a few more minigames or even a particularly well played arcade redux would do.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 20:44
#5
Avihr's picture
Avihr
Box

I wasn't beating on the OP, i was like cheering on this post really... like fer realz.

lawl

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 05:47
#6
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

mmm. gotta say something, but first, response to OP.

promo showering is not new. something like summer of two years ago was like this. they are working on the gunner update, and it seems they can't let us rest without anything going on for a week. as mentioned many times in the forums, the art team isn't the coding team, so while the coding team is working on content, the art team can work on promos.

UVs and LD are a known problem. do some research and you'll find out what the problem with the problem is. yes, this problem has a problem.

defense in general has to be redone. offense is the way for the time being, and that's why everyone uses chaos, skolver ect.

replayability is not something you can achieve like that. this game tries with the arcade, but it fails because enemies dont pose a threat, and with some weapons there is a end-all-be-all strategy that wins at everything. it's about design, and it's not that easy.

and now to the guys that bashed the OP because this is the billionth time that this is suggested. please don't. at least not on clever, thought-out suggestions like this. just state that this has been suggested already. I can accept it on dual wielding because it's just broken, but not on this.

Wed, 07/02/2014 - 12:32
#7
Caelestis-Songbird
Yooo, hey again guys, sorry I

Yooo, hey again guys, sorry I haven't been responding to the thread as soon as I could, haha

I can understand why people just bash because hurr you're stupid, sometimes just saying something like that would mean they're just not bothered of reading and only take what people say with some disgregard because it's people nagging, and not many people are too focused on that, haha. But some people do complain because they actually like this game and just want it to be a great, lasting experience, the people who genuinely like this game for one or more of it's key aspects of the game and since I'm a guy that plays only a few games (probably around 6 games at most on a regular basis), you got to have something you can play on to keep you distracted before expiring

but yeah, Spiral knights is probably the most visually attractive games I've seen for a long while, and it's got a LOT going for it if it had fixed its issues and maybe be up there like Team fortress 2 or Runescape (probably not now but I sure enjoyed the finer things of Gielinor, like smithing, crafting and being a monkey at Ape Atoll |3), them two games that have a good example of a fun and replayable (in my opinion, not rated E for everyone), TF2 has it's own slew of balanced classes, who had their strengths and weaknesses like the Heavy, a slow-moving fortress and the demoman who are expert trappers and skilled at both forms of indrect explosive combat and melee combat, sort of like a chaos user, but more durable. Nitpicking aside, the two has had major successes due to a balance of content and balance.

If OOO is following the footsteps of how Valve releases content, then they're doing it wrong. Firstly, there are MAJOR issues that need to be dealt with, but they are more focused onto releasing reskin after reskin of cosmetics to make a fortune rather adding additional content, and said content (additional gameplay) is the Apocrea or Winterfest event. Valve releases their cosmetics in a fashion that is easily obtainable and as much of a hat simulator it is, it's a lot more accessible with the use of crafting and price of the metal and it's essentially free metal as long as you play, which is no problem because you got actual competition that keeps you from thinking "it's the hats I want, I need to keep working to get them", nullifying the fun factor of the core gameplay and constantly reminding you to get the hat when its price has been reduced to 1.33 after a week goes by.
As for Spiral knights, it's a grind, there are hardly any way to get you the currency you need to gain access to them (not to mention the price the boxes and cosmetics are in proportion of runs required to get to them. Even then, there's Lockdown, but with balance issues, it'll likely turn frustrating and just won't be worth it in the end, and because of the constant grind, the majority of people who play would probably be trading rather than playing. Sell low, buy high, not enough people playing together due to absence of professional hands leads to empty expeditions to aid the new players.

TF2 has a pretty fine selection of classes that can explain the purpose of their classes, but then again mobas can as well, depending on the direction of which teamplay a Lockdown rework can work on, they can either work on each other's strengths to victory (TF2, which is more simpler and easier to work with) or mobas, where co-ordination and supporting each other can lead to victory (more team-focused and more effective if performed correctly), as for SK, I'm not even sure if the other classes (Bomber and gunner and other sword classes) are even as effective. Compared to the the Tavish "Demoman" Degroot, his mode of combat is FAST, POWERFUL and STRONG in DEFENSIVE capabilites. If he used the SK bomber's way of combat, he's going to get blown up really fast while doing almost nothing than sit at one spot and constantly arm and detonate the bombs. the bomber needs to be tweaked in order to maximise his effectiveness, such as emphasising his benefits of wearing bomber ARMOUR, turning from a 5 second haze bomb charge to click, drop and blast, if used for area of denial, use a remote trigger, so it's up to the bomber to defend the area and keep it from being infiltrated, but even if it does, he'll lose the battle outright due to lack of immediate firepower, tweaking the effectiveness of bombs makes them more usuable and faster to deploy, and as for blast bombs, give them more use of making them usuable as a primary weapon, such as quick deployment, or make them throwable, similar to how gremlin demos function, giving bombers a fighting chance and making other enemies think twice before attacking and and forcing them to retreat before the bomber charges and clonks the knight turning tail and falls to the explosion.

will post again, but all that and distractions got me spent, I'll return later with regards to classes and how it's replayability fares against the two of my favourites, Runescape and TF2~

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