Spiral Knights - Recons see enemy and ally HP in LD

Recons see enemy and ally HP in LD

12 replies [Last post]

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 14:04

Holy-Nightmare

Simply put, you as a recon can see the enemy's hp %. This would aid them in knowing when to fight and would be fun to see how much your attacks really do (would probably help the Data gatherers too).

Much like how the Solemn Vow allows the TF2 Medic to see enemy health and other info, this would help recons aid their team.

Note: you can't shield/cloak and type at the same time (without some unusual configuration) so this would be helpful (to the team) only once the recon dies and the one who killed him doesn't run and heal (if the recon tells anyone).

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 17:26

Fangel

Actually would be neat.

I think it'd be great to have team passives. Recon could see enemy health (think: enemy health bars above their heads), guardians could see friendly and enemy shield gauges (so they know when to strike), and maybe strikers could see charge bars?

All should fit into the styles of play:

Guardians counter-attack (is their shield about to break? How much longer can that visible recon cloak? When will their boost run out?)
Recons prioritize targets (that enemy has lower health and will probably fall back after one hit, but if I take a pop shot with my blaster...)
Strikers move quickly and attack vulnerable targets (are they charging? I can combo them for full damage right now, or I can make them unleash the charge and miss me)

Also, you could have just mentioned the TF2 Spy can see enemy health, because a recon has more in common with that class than the medic.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 16:37

Holy-Nightmare

Sounds good. Would help

Sounds good.

Would help guardians counter and chase enemies. (make sure to turn it off instantly when recon cloaks)
Recons become a very real threat. (waiting like sharks when strikers run back to base to heal)
Strikers now have to pay more attention to bombers than just running in when the charge is 99% full.

IK the spy has MUCH more in common but the Solemn vow describes the mechanic very well and immediatly while the Spy page gives just 2 lines pointing this out after some other text.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 17:58

Gbot-Vtwo

+1 I love this Idea.

Sun, 09/14/2014 - 02:37

Jungle-Sword

hmmm

well hard to say, only useful thing I see is the recon ability. The guard ability isn't that good, you can mostly see when the guard shield is broken, and what should a guard do against an uncloaked recon? striker boost is harder to notice, but what will it help the guard? a good striker knows when his boost is out
striker ability: uhhh sry but wtf? He's charging. For most strikers that means that he will back up and wait until he releases it. Until then he will gun him down with (OP) valiance. And one can mostly see when the charge is full, he sees when he is charging mostly by sight and then determine if he will attack him or not

Sun, 09/14/2014 - 11:29

Holy-Nightmare

Knowing how much shield a

Knowing how much shield a recon or striker has left is very valuable information and can help Guardians position themselves better (move the front line up if the enemy shield is low). Knowing when to rush in before a bomb is planted is helpful to strikers and can save them from getting busted for trying to go after haze bomber/hybrid.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 00:40

Fangel

As Holy-Nightmare said.

The guardian ability would be for friendies and enemies alike. Being able to see when your recon has a low shield is helpful as a team player, and knowing your strikers are going to fall back soon because of no boost is a reason to throw up your shield.

Striker ability is helpful to see A) How fast they charge their bombs (if it's fast you should gun them down. If it's slow, you can zip in and smack 'em between plants), and B) know when that charge will be finished and if it's safe to be in front of that voltedge charging striker at the moment.

That plus there's only so much information that can be given to players about who they're fighting. With health and shield covered, what else would there really be to choose from that everyone has? An "Auto-Target detector"? That's more of an ego thing than something that will change your approach. A "dodge recharge" icon? You can't just give Strikers nothing new while giving the other classes new toys.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 10:04

Jungle-Sword

ok MAYBE the guard ability...but no way the striker ability

ok I'll put these scenarios for the striker ability:
scenario 1
1.the striker sees a bomber close by charging his bomb, sees the charge bar and notices its low.
- he attacks him
2. same case, just he notices that its high
- he doesn't attack him

now lets put these cases for a knight who can't see the charge
case 1: he attacks him
case 2: he attacks him
- even though the bomber might have laid the bomb by then, the striker can still boost out easily after he hits, in fact he could even break the shield
(yes I said he'll back up if some1 charges in my prev. post, but I meant for swords)

scenarios 2
1. the striker see a striker charging his sword, not too far away, sees the charge and notices its low
now we have different possibilities depending on armor
chaos: he'll back up
skolver: he MAY go to him and attack, but he knows the risk
nub: hell go attack (yes this isn't an armor class...but still)

2.same case, he notices it at high:
chaos: he'll back up
skolver: he'll back up
nub: he'll try to outsmart him

knight who doesn't see the charge:
1. chaos: he'll back up
skolver: since he doesn't know it, he'll try to get him but knows the risks
nub: he will go in and try to outsmart him

2. chaos: he'll back up
skolver: same as before, but when he notices that the charge is full while approaching him, he will dash towards him, being 'immune' vs the charge and closing up
nub: same as above

now hat you can see is that the strikers with information will tend to be more careful and may lose the 'aggressive risk type' which can actually be very successful at times

as for the guard ability: sure fine, not the worst idea but consider these points:
- how many recons guards are there in a match?
- how often will it occur that he then SEES that recon with LOW cloak? or that GUARD with low shield? And the recons/guards aren't stupid, so they won't necessarily approach a battle with low shield, neither will strikers with low boost

question: can he see cloaked recons then with that ability? or only when uncloaked? becuz that won't help much if he see recon's cloak only while uncloaked because:
- what is he gonna do? chase the recon?

'you can't just give strikers nothing while giving the other classes new toys'
well I thought you said on another thread that strikers were already OP? (which is true)
sry about wall of text

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 10:30

Holy-Nightmare

Logical conclusion...

According to Jungle-Sword this update would make all Pro Chaos Cloak strikers sit in base and attack (since they can't back up any further).......

@ Jungle-Sword what would you give them then to make this update class fair (even though striker is already unfair)

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 10:47

Jungle-Sword

recons ability is fine, and striikers don't need one

guards could use...hm...
A: a better shield (which doesn't break of one GF combo
or
B: something like a 'god' mode which activates when HP is below 5%, makes him invincible against anything. This could be used to get away or give last blows

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 10:50

#10

Fangel

I try to stand by my words

'you can't just give strikers nothing while giving the other classes new toys'
well I thought you said on another thread that strikers were already OP? (which is true)
But in that thread, I suggested giving every class potential abilities, not just recons and guardians(who desperately need them).

And I think that the guardian ability would not see cloaked enemy recon's shields. You should be able to see ally shields always, but not enemy recons while cloaked because that defeats the purpose of the cloak! When the recon reveals itself is when the guardian can see how long it can remain cloaked.
I primarily thought the guardian should be able to see ally shield status, but when able to see enemy shields, it creates an even better "time to strike" mentality that guardian needs to time otherwise, and one misstep can throw off the entire counter-attack.

EDIT: You ninja posted me so here's my response there:
I agree that strikers don't need anything new, but you could argue the same for every class. Plus giving each class except striker a new ability just seems rude to strikers.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 11:25

#11

Holy-Nightmare

How about just increase the

How about just increase the Dash jump recovery rate by 10% for striker? (preferably less)

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 12:20

#12

Fangel

But that's a direct combat upgrade

Right now the cooldown is in seconds, and those seconds are in integers. I'm not sure if Three Rings would be up for making dodge a float unless you mean just taking one second off the cooldown.

But honestly, no matter what you give a striker their combat strategies won't change. I'm not trying to change striker mentality - hence why they're the ones stuck with the charge time vision. This gives the mind-games striker something to work with. You know, the ones that fake injury to lure you towards them, while giving the other classes items to keep track of that directly benefit their style of play.

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Recons see enemy and ally HP in LD