Spiral Knights - Suggestions for some changes/improvements, OOO.

Suggestions for some changes/improvements, OOO.

18 replies [Last post]

Thu, 10/09/2014 - 17:07

Fight-Men

Hello again fellow knights.

You might recognize me from the long posts, some of them quite enthusiastic, about the performance issues that were troubling SK.

Although they were not my PC's fault, they were still big problems that resulted from por optimization.

Gladly, a user fixed it... SK is runing about 5 times smoother and stabler.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/62691

*OOO, give Thrillhaus a medal! Not only he sorted out one of SK biggest problems, but he made the game totally playable.

Like you, i do not only play SK... I play some singleplayer games, and mostly SK and League of Legends regarding the online ones.

And some of you who play LoL, might agree with me when I say this: SK is like a stream of fresh air in the gaming world. I dont know how to explain... Once you pass the first crappy and boring levels, the game grabs you with its claws and BANG! You are addicted.

Maybe you are tired of wasting your time in LoL, 40 minutes average per game only to be more stressed and furious after the game. But SK is that one game that you always come back to play.
Am I wrong?

Its hacker free (some morons have fun using macros, mostly LD players),

Its F2P, not like some that are P2P or even P2W,

Is toaster compatible (of you use the guide from Thrillhaus),

Its flame/rage free,

Its one of the most user friendly games that we have available right now.

And its free... Well, with the option of paying for some stuff, of you want.

But since I returned to play SK, i realized that the game seems too empty. Like 50% of the players from a year ago simply vanished.

Back then you could search for a party and 20 runing FSC's would appear for you to join... Nowadays, I can find one to join ocasionaly.

It seems to me that both OOO and SEGA are losing it.

I've been thinking about some changes and improvements to the game. Both user and developer oriented.

1. OOO needs, and I'm quoting from a post I've seen here, a marketing/adverstising budget or some "sponsors". This game is very unknown to the online gaming society. Thus, we will very difficultly recruit new players to the SK cause.
Most of the people I know don't like the game, because of the graphics being too childish... Add this to an unexistent advertising and the number of new players will be close to 0.

2. Chip some edges of the performance/interface issues. Point 1 is highly dependable on this one, as you wouldn't advertise something that lags and/of gets unstable at some point.

3. Maybe use the same skin system as LoL when it comes to money income. An example that could be applyied to SK, although the majority of oldschool players will burn me alive for giving this idea. Make armour costumes disapear, and if people want to use a costume (equiping skvolver and displaying snarbolax coat, they should pay to use the costume. This is like the skin system on LoL.
Or of you feel really at it, remove armour costumes and design payed skins. This is the point that its developer oriented.

4. Add more LD modes. This game could really go on the competitive side, or not... Who knows?
LD games could have random power up spawns, this would had diversity and fun to the game. And a Proto Gear mode would be awesome for a non-tryhard.

5. Have the option to toggle between the old interface and the new one. As much as the game changed for the better, the interface was something that never caught my love... The new one is sluggish, poorly organized, etc etc... The old one with its flaws was simpler, and a lot faster and cleaner.

6. Bring back the "if one catches the CR, all will catch it... Its pretty boring going back to catch it, when we could had it for all the party like before.
Don't know if its just me thinking this way. I think that update of each one needing to catch their stuff was a stepback...

I know some of this aspects have been discussed a lot, I just reposted them here too so that if OOO sees this, they think of everything.
But if OOO does not listen a bit to the comunity they'll launch the game into oblivion :/

Speak your mind on this.

Thu, 10/09/2014 - 17:45

Leafblader

moo

Did you seerusly just say that we should pay in order to use costumes. I'm not going to try to be nice. That is the second worst and most stupid thing I have ever read on the suggestions forum after the sky clockworks. How would that improve the game?

For suggestion #6 the reason loot is now instanced is because people were abusing the system with alts to get four times the loot. They ruined it for everybody.

Apart from those two things I agree with everything else.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 07:04

Fight-Men

**I didn't knew that about

**
I didn't knew that about alt abusing... Then, I'll withdraw from point #6.

(OOO, scratch that from your to-do list).

**
About point 2, maybe I'm not thinking that throughly, but at least hear me out.

OOO seems to be a little desperate for income. Maybe to get more devs working on what they should had done to the game yesterday, hopefully that why they are desperate.
And whats the point on using costumes? To showoff... And if people really want to show of, they would buy that costume. This would work as the same skin system existent on League of Legends. Thats were the company gets most of their income.
And people buy skins for 2 reasons, mainly: to showoff, or because they like the skin.
This would benefit the game for both players and developers.
On one hand devs get more income to get more devs, advertising budget, etc etc... Things that are essencial for a game to grow up.
And SK would be costume cleaner: we would not see 200 costumes per player. Costumes are so mainstream that they get boring, when in my opinion they should be restrict access aka money acquirable.

When I say this, I'm not suggesting that OOO removes costumes from people who already have them. But make them "exclusive" to the people who pay for them.
I think this would stimulate the game economy.

**** New suggetions/petitions****

Point #7- Add a Guild Race mode.
Maybe you are familiar with the old guild races, maybe not.
The point on this one is that 2 Guilds race against each other in a mission to see who finishes 1st. Both guilds would select the same mission, same difficulty and same options. And by the end the wining guild would receive a prize agreed between them and the opposing guild.
This should have the option of full Proto Gear run, in order to make things funny if guilds want to.

Point 8#- Refer a friend. Dependent on point 1# and 2#.
This would benefit the new player income.
Although only Steam users get this feature, i will risk to say that 00% of them don't know that this feature exists. And if they know/use that feature, it's pretty useless because you cant get almost anything from that (last time I checked was 10 ME). And with the new energy system/the whole patch, I don't know if that feature even exists on steam.
This should have a reward system per player, example:
5 friends invited = 5000cr
10 friends invited = 20000cr
50 friends invited = Master Blaster
100 friends invited = 500CE.
(Note that this values are just hypothetical and an example).

If a person likes this game, that person will talk about it to his friends, and if his friends like the game they would probably talk about it... And so on.
If this works, the player base should increase exponentially. But as I said before, this is dependent on advertising and stability improvements aka point 1 and 2.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 07:10

Vohtarak-Forum

im vohtarak, call me by that name

pay for costumes, its called promos
and needing to pay for costume slots will harm the game far worse than the money it will get

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 09:13

Straight-Line

"Is toaster compatible (if you use the guide from Thrillhaus),"

I hav "toaster" computer and Spiral Knights is still playable even without the tweak.

1. OOO needs, and I'm quoting from a post I've seen here, a marketing/adverstising budget or some "sponsors". This game is very unknown to the online gaming society.

Nah, some just are turned off by "easy cutsey artstyle" games. Yea I know how people say World of Warcraft has "cutesy artstyle", but even WoW is still exciting and challenging (raids). The only challenge this game has is Shadow Lairs and a few events. LoL takes "skill" like inthis vid

I just think the SK communities PVE section is a bit "too nice" when it comes to welcoming "new players".

Post 3, just purchase a name change pass.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 15:09

Fight-Men

@Oohnorak I think we and OOO

@Oohnorak
I think we and OOO itself already saw that primos are not the solution.
Primos are too cure and beautifull when they come, bit after that everyone that came because of the promo left because the excitement is over.
I bet that with some math you will reach that conclusion...
How harming would it be?

@Straigh-Line
Your game was playable without the tweaking? Then, I am going to assume that you dont really know what a toaster is.

Skill and graphics have very little to do with the overall knowledge of the game by the gaming society...
Marketing, food advertising and a good game are all that matter.
"But SK has childish graphics!" oh yeah, and minecraft seems to have cutting edge ones and an infinite skill cap...

Spiral Knights requires skill, no more and no less than LoL.
OOO is to blame in that, they didnt took advantage of the game possibilities: just look at LD, that laughable comparing to other PvP games. Unballanced game mode at its best.

SK has one of the best comunities ever found on the internet. Only that is almost halfway to a good game, the rest is in the devs shoulders.
OOO clearly have been sleeping. They have a playerbase that is almost 100% supportive for them, who help them with constructive suggestions and petitions.
And what do they do? Ignore the comunity like we arent worthy of attention!
Someday only the die-hard players will continue to play and support the game... And thats a shame...

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 15:30

Red-Galaxy

@Fight-Men

To be fair, the gun puppy drakon and tortofist guns are proof that OOO has been listening to our suggestions. Out there there are suggestions about these that are actually older than the events and promotions that came with it.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 16:34

Sweet-Hope

you certainly dont know "How Harming" would be if they made costumes as "pay only".
people buy promos? yeah
they give costumes yeah? make them, to pay once again to wear what they already bought and have the right to wear? oh and probably this something montlhy - weekly thing? NO effing thanks

LoL system as you think its "awesome" Works because the game have a big population if you compared it with spiral knights, and you want to implement this pretty bad system in a small population where promos are the main thing to pay now, that some players now buy and they at least get a small benefit from it thanks to the costume (because its what you get if you dont have luck, well that if the promo dont have UV tickets) so yeah with your "awesome system" we just kill their market, not all players would "buy into pay your right to wear you costume" thingy, as if it werent bad enough that prize boxes have bad RNG system for your rewards, that they dont come with energy anymore and since they come in bunch make the costumes worthless flooding the AH, now AH will be even more flooded because "thanks to your awesome system" nobody wants to buy costumes that need to pay again. which will make again a bad thing to buy promos because now you have to pay the costume and your right to wear it.

oh and now you make 3 events event more worthless even for F2P because from the events we already have, 3 of thems are costumes mixed with accesories: Caketastrophy, Dark Harvest and Winterfest Festival. wonderful. once again costume market to the trash.

at this point you harmed:

-Players who buy promos: now they have useless costumes to sell because the small population of players that will buy the "awesome right to wear costumes" thing, less players buying into promo

-Playes who already pay for their costumes: people that paid 40k-100k E for their costumes (sure nobody said they should pay that but they paid it) now have to pay once again to wear what they already got frm high prices, sure they pay high Energy so probably there would be some who would pay again to wear it... which would be just once again a small population compared to the ones who dont going to pay again what they overpaid - paid before.

-Events that at this point its the only thing that get back players again which mean probably "Some" will buy whatever promo is running. now that we need "to pay our costumes to wear them" you literally killed the event purpose "hey i got a costume aww crap 3500 to wear it? screw it im off" less players playing now because to use the costume they need to pay, less players mean players that probably could buy whatever promo is running, oh hey to wear what you pay you have to pay again!. no thanks

-Market now that costumes are just even more useless the market will be flooded with them and nobody will buys them, which will make costumes even more cheap than they are when promos are running because there too many of them that nobody wants it! now thanks to this system we have even more costumes that nobody wants which will make promos once again pretty bad to buy because you dont get what you want from the RNG and now hard to sell because nobody want to pay to wear their costumes.

Its really a pretty bad idea to force your players to pay something they already paid to wear. that dont make money, that only make lose money when there is already a system implemented, and will affect pretty bad the system that spiral knights already have, OOO though its "Make big whales to pay more to get more" which its a pretty bad though, i used to be a whale that probably spent more than 5000 USD in this game in every promo, i just stopped after they start to sell boxes without energy, because dont worth it with those low chances to get something that dont worth 20k cr after a week of promo and certainly me as many others will think the same, wouldnt pay just to wear something i already bought it just dumb.

What OOO need its to change their minds and risk themselves on new alternatives, supply depot its literally useless, rarities and the ocasional flash sales its the only use for supply depot, why i would pay 3600 E for a weapon when i just can get it literally for free farming the right levels? or well if i dont have time, just buy the orbs which its even more cheap that the weapon? this make weapons, shield and armors sections so useless in supply depot.

Spiral should have a system similar to TF2 since they already have the lockboxes, supply depot can sell normal accesories that cant be unbinded with accesories tickets, lockboxes can contain rarer versions of such accesories, i dunno maybe also a crafting system like other thread suggested where lockboxes accesories only can be used in crafting others accesories, and we can add more and more to the list.

We DONT NEED to force them to pay something they already have, whad OOO need to understand its that big whales wouldnt be cashing out money everytime and that they cant rely only on them. they need to make players to feel attracted to buy and this mean not behind a RNG and low chances paywalls. i honestly would feel more people will cash more money in energy to get something sure from supply depot in promos (lets says mixmasters) and promo boxes will have prismatic mixmaster which would make more valuable to get from those gamblers, and players that dont want to risk they can get the normal version from supply depot in promos.

Thats how should be done, no in LOL way.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 17:44

Fangel

Um.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but I don't think you've expanded too terribly far into everything that is here.
Spiral Knights' community is not the nicest one around. Not everyone is in 100% support of Three Rings. Spiral Knights does not require the same skills that League of Legends has - these are two entirely different genres of games.

Also, a very large amount of players in Spiral Knights are free to play. As in, they will not spend real money on the game. What does this mean? It means you shouldn't look to charge them for what is already available. Costume slots are already here, and have always been free. They don't affect gameplay, but directly affect how people interact with you. Spiral Knights is also a social game, so removing our outward appearance unless we pay will break some social interactions.

Also, promos are not bad. I'm okay with the bi-weekly promos. The only issue is that people assume the bi-weekly promos are updates, and confuse assume that they are on the same par as level design and gameplay. What we need is more gameplay, yes, but promotions aren't taking away potential levels. In fact, many promos are specialized for gameplay events. (See: Ancient prize box, dangerous times promo, shadow boxes, obsidian boxes, etc.)

Basically, what I agree with in your original post are that A) We need marketing, and B) We need server optimization. Everything else needs not to be changed.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 19:52

Straight-Line

"Spiral Knights' community is not the nicest one around. -Fangel

"@Straigh-Line (nice job copy-pasting)
Your game was playable without the tweaking?
Then I am going to assume that you dont really know what a toaster is.

SK has one of the best comunities ever found on the internet

I get it, your a big fan for SK. I just put my honest opinion. Not everyone HAS TO agree with every suggestion someone created. I got turned down plenty of times.

Onto the point you made about LockDown having skill: people start ridiculous arguements over who is better in lockdown (seems like every week I see tournament threads offering large amounts of CR or real life stuff (recent thread is offering a Razor NAGA). Really, I don't think Three Rings wanted LD to be a bunch of outrageous tournaments. World of Warcraft, Street fighter 4, DOTA, Osu! and other big name games (you mentioned League) have, get this actual tournaments that are properly organized and most importantly, players in those tourneys don't say stuff like "change your controls", "your cheating", or if AA was ever in a fighter "your Akuma is to OP with AA. Turn it off"

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 20:25

#10

Fight-Men

Hey hey guys... Calm down a

Hey hey guys... Calm down a bit.

I brought this topic up so we can discuss it.
I did NOT wanted to force anything into anyones thoughts. If you don't agree its fine, thats why its called discussion; where people talk about things that are or aren't right.
Even better, when someone disagrees thats for the best beacuse they will expose something that wasn't thoroughly thought.

*
@Sweet-Hope

I'm not trying to come up with excuses, but I said in the 2nd topic, and I will quote: "About point 2, maybe I'm not thinking that throughly..."
I have no way arround for your reply. I'll withdraw my suggestion. (Don't write that on your to-do list OOO (Point 3#).
You could had been more condescendent, I felt pretty stupid because I thought I was coming up with a game changing idea and clearly it was shit by me... you made me realize the most important thing that I did not see: player base of SK against playerbase of LoL.

Still, thank you for enlightening me.

*
@Fangel

I talked about my experience on the forums and in-game. Since I only post here from time to time, and play on random parties (where I almost don't write anything), my experience has been good... No one insults me, no one rages, no one comes at me #noobster #rekt #lelusaubad, thats why I said it was one of the best...
Maybe as you say, it was a little extreme.

I already withdrew from that suggestion.
Forgot, as I said above, about playerbase and forcing paying methods one something we already have for free.
Thank you once more :)

So you don't think that LD balancing,
LD Proto Gear mode,
LD/Blast network random power-up spawns,
Mission Guild Races,
Interface switching and more, are not good ideas? (suggest some too (^O.O^)

@Straight-Line

I know that LD has that wiener measuring fights... I did not wanted to even think about it.
Still, there must be a way to balance it... Everything has a way to be balanced, everything.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 20:47

#11

Eltrooper

^ You are right on the money Fangel

This is the best online game I have ever played and it just needs more publicity, content and server optimization to expand its player base.

Paying for costume slots is a mistake because most people just won't do it. Myself included. In fact that would end my search for a reasonably priced Iron Dragon armor.
~Elt

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 22:09

#12

Sweet-Hope

@Fight-Men Sorry if i was a bit hard, but paying for costume slots it just will make lose money to OOO instead earning them more and well as i said nobody will pay that, and just will make promos being less viable.

Fri, 10/10/2014 - 22:23

#13

Deleted-Knight

What I think are SK's main flaws from most severe to least

By "flaws" I mean what's keeping it from becoming popular and mainstream.

1. Small Variety in Content.
Once a player beats all the missions, there's very little left to do. Lockdown starts off pretty competitive, until you peak and realize some people just plain outclass you. Many end game players spend their time amassing cosmetics and special item so they can stand around talking to each other in haven while showing off their cosmetics/items.
The game is very artsy and not really oriented towards competition. This isn't a bad thing, but it does make the playable content rather dull. Once you've peaked your fighting skills there's little left to do. The PvP doesn't support an evolving metagame and the PvE is repetitive (even if the scenery changes in the clockworks, you're still doing the same thing).
Unlike most MMOs, I think SK is based on exploration rather than competition and achievement. By nature it is more casual and "hard core" gamers get tired of it quickly.

2. Graphics
It's what makes SK unique, but it's also what makes it unpopular. Most MMO gamers are people who like the grit and steel, not bonks and whacks. They want to see more dramatic deaths, not a gooshy explosion and coins popping everywhere. There's a reason Super Mario isn't an MMO.
SK graphics are great (if you have the privilege of not playing on a toaster) but they are also kind of boring. It's like relaxing music. It sounds beautiful, but listening to it for too long makes you sleepy.

3. One-sided Communication with the Community
The suggestion forum is overflowing yet we only get 1-2 posts from an admin after every update/event. Perhaps they hear us, but they never say they heard us. Even a "We'll take this idea into consideration" or "We probably won't do that because ___" is better than staying silent. It makes you wonder if the developers even know where they want the game to go. There's no annual plan or monthly projection that we know of. If you don't give specific deadlines, that's okay, but players at least needs to know where things are heading.

It's like a government not telling the citizens what laws are being considered.

4. Bad Servers
Granted, this problem will probably be fixed if the player base increases, but the lag in this game is horrible. Like right now, I drop packets every day, at all times in the day when I log in. My internet connection is perfectly fine doing other things. That's not cool. Connection problems, big or small, is a turn off.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 04:38

#14

Straight-Line

"They want to see more dramatic deaths, not a gooshy explosion and coins popping everywhere. There's a reason Super Mario isn't an MMO."

Supermariobrosonline

"Hey hey guys... Calm down a bit."

Wait, you thought I was mad?

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 04:44

#15

Whimsicality

Saw the word "petition", immediately discredited the entire post.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 06:58

#16

Zaffy-Laffy

I'm gonna just attack point #1 on advertising.

It's funny because I remember somewhere there was a brag for millions of users. Oops here it is, wow three million accounts! Talk about trying to advertise when majority of your target audience has already seen the game.

This thread also has too many ideas, and it's become a mash of everything. Please separate each suggestion into separate threads because we don't want to be discussing so many suggestions in one single thread, it's chaotic and disorganized.

Sat, 10/11/2014 - 11:44

#17

Fight-Men

@Sweet-Hope Its alright, dont

@Sweet-Hope

Its alright, dont worry about it. Sometimes, being "harsh" is needed, with a grain of salt of course.

@Deleted-Knight

About 1:
Agree on the part that the game is more for a casual gamer rather than a hardcore one, and that PvE becomes boring once missions are all done... Since, as you say, this is more of an exploration game, PvE needs a big improvement. One thing I've noticed, is that new items are being released but the levels stay the same... Shouldn't it be the other way arround?
Althought that doesn't mean that PvP can't really become something good, and competitive.
Not everything is a dead-end on possibilites.

About 2:
Graphics are ok, they are not that good nor that bad.
**Off topic** I don't mind the coin rain after kill, what I really like is the possibilities and combinations of equipment that SK gives us (gotta give credit to OOO on that), but the rest isn't evolving anything. ****
If you have a high-end machine you can max the graphics and it look good.
Still... For the performance ratio between graphics and performance, on that SK really sucks.

About 3:
Nothing to say to that, just a complete: " I plainly agree!"

About 4:
Another "I agree" from me.
On other games I play at a stable 60-70 ping with no packet drop or loss...
SK does that cute thing of getting a lagspike every 5 mins... Dont BS me that its my setup again...
Playerbase is largely tied to bandwith problems, almost no one is getting to spend their time in a game with laggy environment where other games do perfectly fine.

@Straight-Line

I was just talking to everyone in general...

@Whimsicality

Fixed that for you, hope I can continue to serve you :D

@Zaffy-Laffy

I saw that too... Three million accounts! WOW! Oh, damn we forgot to tell you that 80% of them are unactive for a year...

Do you think I should recriate new threads for each good suggestion worthy of it?

Mon, 10/13/2014 - 22:05

#18

Fehzor

Your wall of text includes a number of things.

Advertising the game would help get the word out, but for it to really work Spiral Knights needs to clean itself up and be more presentable, which implies holding a niche in the gaming world. Currently, it is little more than a poorly supported Zelda clone with immense untapped potential that it refuses to realize. This does not bode well for the game's future, regardless of how many players it forces to look at it.

I think our costume system is already set in stone too much to just take it back and make people start paying to use it on a monthly basis. Costumes of that sorts don't seem to go very well either.

Our PvP needs A LOT to become a respected competitive scene, largely because it favors people that are wealthy, and is a part of a game that is balanced primarily around PvE. These things hurt it because they create an enormous entry cost that scales to force people out, and makes the experience as awful as possible-- but beyond that, PvP isn't what the game advertises. Compare this to games like Team Fortess Two and League of Legends, which are easy to join into, and designed around competitive play.

The old loot system and interface are indeed missed, and I kind of wish they would go back a step and redo the interface to be like it used to be. As for the old loot system, I only wish they'd make some way to quickly clear out crowns at the elevator. Like, have the knight pick up all attainable drops at the elevator, so that I don't have to pick anything up.

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Suggestions for some changes/improvements, OOO.