If someone is dead or afk at the end of a mission or even any level in that mission, they aren't the one doing that mission. That's someone else doing the mission. Therefore they shouldn't get credit unless they at least survive.
Yeah there are exceptions but from my own observations, that isn't the case very often. Instead, it is players getting "help", and then failing.
@Fehzor: i feel that if a player lays dead, they do not get anything from what the live player gets like money, heat, materials, and tokens. Making it so mission completion is also not something they get awarded with i feel is a team breaker. Sure they are not helping and are basically dead weight increasing health/defense on mobs, but i feel if a dead player was depending on a live player to get to the end is not a bad dependency. Any player that feels abuse by this system can have the option to go solo or if party leader kick that player. I know that it is harsh for them to be doing this to a live player, but if the achievement of the group is not as it says going in a party as a group, then i feel teamwork results will no longer be part of them game and only form of team play is having the extra player as extra firepower to killing enemies.
Well that is how i feel, so it depends how others feel for them to think whether team play is an important part of sk anymore.
We need the option to kill team members.
Why is helping those less capable than you a bad thing? Furthermore, if someone is blatantly leeching, why not kick them and/or go solo?
I'm all for helping people out in missions they request help in, but they need to pull their part. If they just die, or go AFK while someone else does the mission for them, then they shouldn't even be doing that mission.
I get requests from people to help them out with a mission they're struggling with, and I do. But then they die, purposely or no, then requests *I* revive them now, though I'm pretty sure they can revive themself. If they die, and lack sparks, then they need to check their strategies and try to conserve sparks in the future, or if they might be doing a mission they're actually unprepared for.
I've had people get toxic with me because I refused to revive them. I'm not made of sparks, people. There may be people who are, but I'm not one of them, nor do I want to use them on someone who may very well be able to help themself back up on their feet. It's really nerve-racking when I offer help to those in need and they just leave me to do their dirty work, all the time. All. The. Time.
That being said, I agree with Fehzor. If someone dies during a mission they requested, and then said mission is completed and they never revived or helped out, then they shouldn't receive credit for something that they clearly are not fully-prepared to complete yet. That's like asking someone to give another person a full set of x* gear so they can get their certification. You can do that, and take the easy way out, or you can work your way to better gear, all the while improving your strategies at the game itself.
Holding then back a bit helps them a lot more in the long run than rewarding them in the short run with some mission reward. In this way, carrying them isn't helping them and that strangely large genre of player that would get carried wouldn't be able to do so.
The missions should also be seen as a test or exam of sorts. Can you deal with fiends? If you can't survive against fiends on normal mode while three vanguards kill fiends then you quite clearly cannot deal with fiends. It would be a shame for players to miss the glory that is learning to cope with fiends.
And I really really really hate kicking people or soloing to resolve these conflicts. Makes me feel like a jerk.
Your lack of determination and insecurity about what other people might think of you doesn't dismiss the fact that kicking and going solo is a perfectly viable solution and by far the best one available to choose rather than blocking dead knights from recieving a mission reward, in fact all they have to do to work around this mechanism is stay alive and run around wich is very easy to do when there's other 3 people in the party who are getting all the attention from the monsters, just avoid random projectiles and shield, gz! you're as much of a dead weight for your team to carry as you were before.
Wasting development time working on such an unnecessary feature knowing that they have trouble working on other things that are more important could almost be considered a CRIMINAL ACT!! O_o. We already have the tools to deal with leechers, griefers or any kind of unwanted players, besides you'd still have to carry that person through the entire mission anyway, all they'll do is probably beg to be revived until someone gets tired or just use a spark at the end of the mission to get the rewards if that is all they really care about, In my opinion this mechanic will hurt innocent players more than it will hurt deadweight leechers.
I am pretty sure that no one would think you're a jerk for kicking someone who is clearly being a leech in your team or someone who is griefing your party intentionally or no, heck, I've helped people and dedicated prescious time of my life to helping dudes or dudettes I don't even know just to be called a "horrid person" at the end of the day for refusing to carry some guy all the way through the clockworks until he got all the recipes to craft a 5* blitz needle (he was 2* btw). I am sure that everyone has their own stories about bad players and such, but in the end it's always up to you to decide where to draw the line and stop these kind of people from taking advantage of you, by blocking them, kicking them or leaving their party.
The ones who do these kind of things are often immature little children or selfish bastards who have no consideration for others and they will always rage at you to get inside your head and make you to feel bad for not babysitting them and get you to be their slave, the saddest part of all this is that they always find someone naive enough to fall for their crocodile tears, this change won't help you escape from them, you just have to deal with it the hard way, I know it sucks because I've been there too, being someone who always runs in random parties I get to see this kind of things more often than I would like but I don't think theres a better way to deal with this and I don't feel that punishing everyone because of some spoiled brats is the way to go.
Pretty much what aviri said
Also, if someone will think you're a jerk for kicking them they'll probably think you're a jerk for not sparking them
This would take like five minutes to do. They have a variable for if you are receiving credit, evidenced by joining late removing credit and they have a check in place for whether you are dead at the elevator evidenced by dead players being yanked to the elevator. That's probably one line of code. Not a criminal act the likes of which we've never seen.
"I don't want to kick them, I just don't want them to get any rewards."
Wanting OOO to do the leech kicking for you is all fine and dandy, but as you stated, there are some good exceptions. Protecting the innocent supersedes punishing the guilty. If I've got tenwounded soldiers lying before me in Nam, and I know that only one random trooper out of them all deserves to live, I'm gonna go full blown Forrest Gump and haul them out.
Though -1 for Avri too simply because you have a whole paragraph that's just one run on sentence. I'm not an english freak, but I like it when things aren't painful to read, damn.
Yeah my grammar sucks :/
@Fehzor I am not really sure how long this would take but idk, still feels like a pointless fix because it doesn't make things easier for anyone. OOO isn't kicking the leechers for you, they're just preventing a dead player from recieving credit, and like I said before, I don't think that this "fix" will help anyone getting rid of a leecher since working around this is very easy to do if all you care about is leeching instead of actually doing something for the team.
what's next? a 30 second autokick time if you don't revive? I don't know about you, but I feel more comfortable making 2 clicks to get rid of a problem rather than adding annoying features that will only end up hurting my own gameplay more than the griefers themselves.
It's not about waging war on 'leachers', it's about enforcing a level of skill where it needs to be. Not where I think it needs to be mind you. Missions are made of levels and areas that players will encounter again, and if they're not fully competent then they shouldn't get credit because that isn't helping them out or even good for them. It's like learning anything else- about the experience and achievement, the noise and prestige at the end only highlights this achievement. That is the crux of this argument and I have yet to see either of you mention it.
And since you ask, I'd remove sparks of life and energy revives altogether. A lot of the depth the game has to offer is lost to sparks of life when people force their way through content.
Reaching the end of the level dead or alive doesn't really prove anything, it just Isn't enough proof as to whether you are skilled enough, you can die by accident or just be good at letting your team carry you through the entire level and as I said, It's not a very difficult thing to do because players that aren't "competent" enough don't draw any attention from monsters.
Good thing that you brought sparks into this, because they completely throw away any possibility of judging someone else's "skill level" by looking at wether they are dead or not at the end of the mission.
And I don't understand why you mention kicking people and leaving parties if you're not referring to leechers. Anyway, some of the things I said before still apply to the point you're trying to focus on, pherhaps you should come up with a better method of judging whether the knight in question deserves or not the mission rewards, the best thing that wouldn't be a pain to develop is probably a damage minimum requirement or something like that to see if you actually did something or just waited for your team to take care of stuff, be it lying dead on the floor or sitting at the back of the bus drinking a soda.
It doesn't have to solve everything- just be an improvement. I've written longer and more direct solutions to this before anyway.
@Aviri
Well, I see where you are coming from (Mars!....Okay, that was horrible, ignore it XD) and fully understand your concerns, but I'll just contribute my own thoughts as well. Yes, you can kick those certain individuals who refuse to revive instead of adding a few new lines of code that punish them for not doing so, but - and this is quite an extreme case (but a case nonetheless) - sometimes the Party Leader is an equally greedy/ignorant person. Or perhaps the party consists of smurfs of the leader (which seems to be happening more often) and, obviously, he/she won't kick them.
@Fezhor/OP
What happens if someone has shown perfect skill throughout the level, didn't die more than once, but in the end, just a few steps before the elevator, that last tick of fire/shock got them? Personally, I think that, while this is a rare case (If you aren't me that is, because this thing just happens waaaaay too often thanks to my evidently overflowing luck), it's also quite a...tragic one at that.
Also, what if you are let's saw you are a beginner, and you are completing a mission for those Sparks of Life since you have none on you at all. Again, same scenario, but less extreme: Let's say you die twice during the mission, but you can't revive yourself due to the fact that you don't have any SoLs. It seems a bit harsh to just kick them out altogether. I don't have a solution to this yet...but it's just a thought.
I'm tired of carrying people through missions while they can still spark ;/