Spiral Knights - "Arms Appropriation" Support Request -- Finally Replied

"Arms Appropriation" Support Request -- Finally Replied

22 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

mer, 01/07/2015 - 21:49

Euclidean-Space

So the other day, for the second time, I handed in the wrong weapon for arms appropriation like an idiot. Gave away my fully heated Sudaruska with some meh but fun to use UVs on it.

This happened because I was in a rush. After crafting the weapon I immidiately opened the menu to hand the weapon in. However, because the system is designed to maximise the company's profit, it obviously detects the fully heated one first, and since I forgot to equip it, it is now gone.
(If you are wondering, it is a Sudaruska with Gremlin+Fiend High, Slime Med, I got the 2* off AH for 1.5kcr b/o, must be someone's crafted item they decoded to give away)

I decided to file a support request knowing that the answer would probably be the same, and I was right. So my request started with a bit of rant and then an analogy, it goes like this:

Alucardlegolas, Hadesrebellion - Jan 02 at 1:23am:
Why do prestige "arms appropriation" missions have to detect the fully heated one to give away, this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is also unfair and I see it as nothing but trying to scam good weapons from players who actually enjoy this game. This measurement sucks so much, I mean this game sucks because nothing is ever fixed. Why am I still playing? I could have easily given away one of my better weapons that is worth even more (potentially hundreds of dollars).

Yes, gave away the wrong weapon one again. Happened at 7:50 pm Australia timezone, gave away my fully heated Sudaruska instead of the one I newly crafted. The game detects the good one because reasons, probably not greedy enough with all the senseless giftboxes one after another with absolutely 0 new content on the storyline.

Sure, I can even expect the outcome of this support request. Just like last time, claiming it could not be fixed. I call total crap on that! I will be way nicer if this sytsem is actually fixed and we all know a bug request does virtually nothing unless the bug is so big that this company will lose actual money. Who cares about the players, they are just wallets right?

I gave away my Sudaruska with Fiend+Gremlin High and I think a slime medium instead of the one I just crafted. I don't even know why I'm trying to send a support while you won't do anything to get back my loss obviously because this system is so flawed and anything that takes a bit of effort would be bad. There are many ways around it, such as a rollback. I was able to reclaim a lost account and I am still thankful up till today.

I know, GMs are not the ones to blame, but GMs are the ones to help and this arms system is obviously not fair at all towards players. I would love to have my old one back. Since I was able to reclaim a lost account once, this would work:
1. Rollback my account to before 7:50pm, BEFORE I gave the weapon away.
2. If it still shows me completing the prestige arms mission, I can simply vendor my new 5* weapon and trade you the 30kcr.
3. If any of my prestige is deducted and it shows me completing the task, we can then work out from there. At least losing 360 prestige is better than losing a very good weapon I actually use.
4. And thank goodness it wasn't something even more valuable.
5. Sorry for the rant as well. I have been playing this game since high school and I really like it. This along with several other glitches and obviously unfair mechanics just pisses me off A LOT. I have tried to avoid it since my previous loss of a CTR H Iron Slug but in the long run it is almost doomed to repeat.
6. I want things to be done, I do not want a "no apology apology" just like last time. You can tell that I am very unhappy right now.
7. A very easy way would be to roll a Sudaruska for me, give me the radiants to heat it, and I am more than grateful to do the heating. As above, I would vendor my newly crafted one and the 30kcr traded. I am fully aware that I might lose my friends list once again due to the rollback. But I actually believe otherwise, since I wasn't foolish enough like last time getting my account deleted.

In a real live scenario, when I receive short change, I would expect the correct change to be given and what I am short in to be given in order for a complete fair transaction to occur. That is, if I buy a $5 item and I pay $10, I would expect a $5 change. If I receive $3, I would want the $2 because it is what I should have received. However, if I receive $6 instead, I would also need to give $1 back to the business because that was not the correct charge and I should not be "stealing", althoug it once again was not my fault; however it IS my FAULT for knowing that something can be fixed, but not willing to fix it. That would be me being a scumbag walking away with the extra dollar that I neither deserve nor entitled to. The same thing with this case.

1. I gave in the wrong thing, discovered, made a childish rant above.
2. The wrong thing should be given back and I should return the right thing. Just like me returning the extra dollar to the business.

And I honestly want the Sudaruska back, it is one of my favourite weapons in this game. I won't even bother if I gave away one of my UVless items, even though I should.

Thanks in Advance

Once again, I don't deserve to have something I like accidentally taken away although it is avoidable, but not completely my fault because the system is so biased and rigged. I once again apologise for the rant above, but that was how angry I was when it happened.

Tried to not use any "bad words", guess that's an achievement I deserve now.

Waited for 2 days, the request status changed to "Escalated to Lead", which basically means "you typed too many things, let my head deal with it instead" and I was right.

Waited for another 4 days (keep in mind that the Earth is not flat, timezones do exist) and Cronus replied the following chunk of non-apologies.

Cronus - Yesterday at 11:34am:
Greetings,

Thank you for your patience while we looked into this. Unfortunately, as we explained the last time you made this error, we do not have the ability to remove prestige that you gain. This means we cannot undo the trade you made with your item. When you turn in the mission you have the option to pick any item you like. The one placed in by the game is simply one of the available options you have on the knight. I'm afraid that it's the responsibility of the player to select the item they wish to trade or to opt to skip the mission entirely. I'm sorry you ran into this again, but hopefully it's not something you'll have to experience again.

So now I would break this all down.

Thank you for your patience while we looked into this.
Nope, I doubt it. I have already explained the situation and numerous ways to compensate my loss due to such an obviously rigged system. I have also explained, as careful as one may be, in the long run, the percentage of this same thing happening is close to 100%. The old Chinese analogy says "if you always walk beside a lake, you are doomed to get your shoes wet sometimes". It fully applies in this case.

Unfortunately, as we explained the last time you made this error, we do not have the ability to remove prestige that you gain.
I did not want the prestige to be removed, I simply wanted the weapon back. Is that honestly a hard thing to do? Sure, rollback might not apply here; but as I have said, simply roll the weapon and trade me some radiants. I'll take the pain to heat it, vendor the new one and toss away the 30kcr, done. I got my weapon back, you get my respect.

This means we cannot undo the trade you made with your item.
This doesn't even make sense. A lost account can be easily reclaimed but a lost weapon can't? So where is it now, lost in the system? Heh, great.

The one placed in by the game is simply one of the available options you have on the knight.
No it is not. The one placed in by the game is simply the one you fully heated, bound and actually use. This would be more accurate and honest.

I'm afraid that it's the responsibility of the player to select the item they wish to trade or to opt to skip the mission entirely.
"Select the item", very tricky. By select, they want the item to be equipped to the knight. Sure, you can select it. I have my attack bound to left click which means I can't.

Also, there is this weird "responsibility dodging" false dilemma used here, which is one should either select the weapon, or to not do the mission, there is nothing in between. This ultimately shows that OOO is not willing to refine the system at all. Who in the right mind would give in a fully heated weapon right after crafting one? Maybe detect the newly obtained one rather than the heated one? Maybe show the UVs on the weapon in the GUI rather than just an icon of the weapon? Nope, none of that. The company had nothing to lose so they simply won't care. In my analogy above, they are that customer who obtained extra change but chose not return the extras because ultimately it is not their fault.

I'm sorry you ran into this again, but hopefully it's not something you'll have to experience again.
Oh yeah, in the long run this is doomed to repeat. Just hope it's not any of my brandish swords or it will be a "bye bye" to this game entirely rather than skipping a niche weapon scam mission.

The reply last time was:
Hyperion - May 22, 2014 at 6:40am:
Thank you for your patience while we looked into this; my apologies for the delay. Unfortunately, while there are some things we're able to reverse (accidental vendor purchases, accidental crafting), turning in items for a mission isn't one of them. I'm very sorry.
Knew it would be the same, well, they made me wait for an extra 5 days.

If you read everything above, you might be wondering why I even bother with prestige and the "arms appropriation" missions.
I'll explain. Prestige is something I can care less of, but enjoying this game is something I would want to do. This means I would like all the slots running and some extra rarities and crowns to craft new weapons. Doing the presitge mission daily only costs around an hour of my existence and the income is enough to get all the slots running. The accumulated gain from the mission also allows spare CRs that cen be used for other purposes. Typically, a danger mission provides around 3700cr, 6 radiants and some other materials. Danger missions are also not as dry as KoA farming. A normal prestige mission gives around 2500cr, add them up it is 6200/day. Times this by 30, the result is 186,000. More crowns than needed for all 4 slots running, only playing one hour a day.

However, sometimes I'd like to craft new weapons, heat is a problem, forging and orbs are as well. Therefore I just run through Sewer Stash to heat up weapons for the 5* Arms Appropriation. Usually I would have a couple spare orbs, a fully heated 4* ready to craft and more crowns. Faster than KoA obviously, the outcome however is not comparable. (Side Note: Both Sewer Stash and JK on Elite is great for 4* orb farming)

Usually I will run with a couple of friends to heat the weapon. After forging the 5*, I would equip the one I actually use and then logout. The day this happened, I had a fever and just couldn't be bothered. I heated the weapon to level 9 and went to bed. Login the next day and heated the weapon in prestige. I left out the usual step where I would equip it. Crafted the weapon and gave the one I use away. I am the one to blame for being sick like a slob and having a different schedule.

Anyway, they didn't even have the kindness to return the radiants used to fully heat a 5* so I can roll on this new one and heat it up again, just for this thing to happen the third time. So yeah, there is no compensation at all. Whatever, it's not one of my best weapons and I can live without it. Just remember, don't do this mission. SpiralSpy has a great little rant about this on his blog: http://spiral.onyxbits.de/archives/speculations/today-arms-appropriation...

Enjoy your grinding!

mer, 01/07/2015 - 22:05

Flowchart

That sucks, but I think the weapon selection code for prestige missions is the same as the one during crafting. That is, it picks heated / UVed ones first, which (usually) makes sense for crafting. I just make sure to equip good versions first, so they won't get selected.

Kinda BS that their reason given is that they can't lower your prestige score. They could just return the weapon to you the next day and take away your old weapon. (I think they can do this)

mer, 01/07/2015 - 22:22

Skepticraven

↓

TLDR: You sent the wrong weapon for an arms appropriation and asked support to give it back and they said no.

Given the way OOO handled one of the largest most widespread problems [bolted vees!], their servers appear to not have a "rollback" function with respect to items. This is likely not an option. Even if it was an option, you would need to rollback the entire server in-case there was a bias wealth-trade from the single user being rolled back... such as 10kE trading on the market.

I accidentally used a SoL when I didn't revive... can I get that SoL back by contacting support? [I sure hope not.]

In my opinion, support staff is not there to fix mistakes we make about using our ingame resources. Actions come with responsibilities, even if the items are only virtual. Could OOO change the prestige number and give you your suda back? Probably. Should they? I think they made the correct decision.

mer, 01/07/2015 - 22:50

Fe-Tarkus

am pretty sure that you can click to choose which one from your Arsenal, much like you can choose which equipment to alchemize. I would make sure that I choose the right 2* weapon for some cheap prestige (Knight rank, 15k prestige).
Though... I don't play anymore. I just check the forums for updates.

mer, 01/07/2015 - 23:47

Retequizzle

the fact presented is that

the fact presented is that the UI is entirely counterintuitive at times, given how it took nearly a week for them to include the tooltip for recovering items from bechamel instead of removing them despite having a ticket in your inventory

that being said i also know they refuse to make requests for players with previous instances of this occurring (i.e. everyone gets one "i screwed up" card they can burn") at least with accessories - so despite having [scrap]-tier decision making at least it's consistent by the looks of it

sorry to hear this happened though

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 00:31

Midnight-Dj

Well, there is a silver lining on this dark miserable cloud. You only lost a crappy normal damage weapon, imagine how bad it would be if it was a far more important sword.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 02:00

Modicu

My points.

The mission is entirely optional, as it's not like doing it would've changed your life in any significant way or form.
You have a choice between what weapon you put in. As the crafting system does so, naturally, the weapon that is at the highest heat level or number of unique variants on it of what is needed will be chosen. If the weapon needed is the only one in your inventory, then you should've considered rethinking if turning it in for a few prestige points is really worth losing something that you enjoy using.
You are ultimately responsible for your own actions, even if you were "rushed". "Rushed" isn't an excuse for something that could have easily have been avoided, especially when "rushed" typically trumps carelessness.
Could your Sudaruska be reobtained and the prestige points dropped? Maybe, but the reason why that was unable to be done is perhaps it would require a substantial amount of work, that would impact both the game and other players. A "rollback" isn't exactly an easy thing to do, without anything else protruding in the way, and for that matter, Spiral Knights likely lacks a feature of that type, as that would explain the mass of storms of bolted vees, and the actions taken to be rid of them. Look at Team Fortress 2; if you delete an item from your inventory, you are given a prompt as to if you really want to do this. If you continue and do delete the item, then that was your choice. You are given a similar option on Spiral Knights, and that's to confirm that you're willing to trade in the selected items for mission rewards with a checkbox. It isn't forced upon you at all, nor is it a scam if you could've easily have just closed the interface.
This isn't a scam. You're at fault here, not OOO. If there's nothing they can do about it, then there's clearly nothing they can do about it. You had a choice, a choice you could've opt'd out of, but your carelessness and lack of paying attention ended up making you lose a "fun" weapon you enjoy. It's not their fault you clicked that button, that you confirmed your choice. With the number of things you might've crafted across you time of playing the game, I'm still baffled as to why you haven't realized that the weapon with a higher rating, whether from UVs or heat level, is always selected first.
What do I think about this? I think OOO made the correct decision entirely with how you're behaving over something so... minor. It's a virtual item that was lost due to a careless choice, that once again, could have been avoided. There's no need to act the way you are over your mistakes, let alone, point fingers at others and claim that what was done could've easily have been undone. Some things are not that easy to amend, and considering this is a second instance of this happening, then you apparently did not learn your lesson the first time around.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 03:37

Fehzor

Wow. That's really crummy of them. I mean you can try to justify it, but the bottom line is that it would have taken support five minutes and it would have made Hades feel a lot better.... In a social game like Spiral Knights that's important and the game masters should capitalize on it. Not doing so is stupid of them.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 04:27

Krakob

I agree with Fehzor. As far as I know, the GMs have an only-once policy on stuff like this. Vendored the wrong item? They'll help you but only once. Crafted with the wrong item? They'll help you but only once.

I've had to ask the GMs to help me out with stuff like this twice. In both cases, I was notified that they do it as a one time thing. In both cases, I was also really tired and in one I was suffering from fever.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 09:19

Mtax-Forum

Let's first say that Arms Appropriation should never exist in way it's here now. OOO could make fair system like once suggested, but naaaah.

EDIT: Wait.... you are Alucardlegolas?

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 09:41

#10

Orangeo

I can't remember, but there

I can't remember, but there was one time where I'd accidentally equipped a trinket to the wrong helmet and OOO snapped it off for me. Either that or they did it for someone else. The point I'm trying to get across is that, assuming OOO's support hasn't suddenly been replaced, they probably really would help if they could. So don't hate the player, hate the game; prestige missions shouldn't automatically go for your best level 10 UV weapon.

Quite frankly I wouldn't put it past OOO to make it deliberately go for your better item if it meant getting more orbs out of you, but I doubt you're going to remake that sword, so they don't really have motivation. It's a design oversight combined with player negligence, nothing more.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 10:27

#11

Mtax-Forum

How often do you equip trinket to helmet?

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 11:28

#12

Orangeo

Haha, I mean accessory of

Haha, I mean accessory of course. My mistake.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 13:00

#13

Abelisk

Cronus - Yesterday at

Cronus - Yesterday at 11:34am:

11:34 A.M.?
What's 11:34 backwards?

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 13:40

#14

Fangel

Sounds like a straw that broke the camel's back.

Sounds like you messed up. Instead of ranting about how terrible the game's support is perhaps you could accept that you messed up?
It's not like the game mechanics suddenly changed just to spite you.

Using this as a learning stepping stone perhaps you could direct some of that anger energy towards making a suggestion to Three Rings on how exactly to fix this. Such as, the box is X'd out if you don't have an item but has a green glowing outline which you have to choose the correct item for before you press confirm? That would make a difference in this situation.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 13:41

#15

Klipik-Forum

43:11, we aren't writing with calculators here. And it would be upside down, not backwards.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 13:49

#16

Holy-Nightmare

Not the best system

I had a similar experience when crafting some items for a friend.

I had 2 Shade armor sets, one was bound and the other unbound. When I went to craft a Firefly Shade armor (an armor I already had) for my friend the system selected the Bound one. I was then left with an armor I already had (just without the nice UV my original one had).

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 16:17

#17

Legend-Slayer

wow... just wow to the community, no seriously.

certainly is his fault to no check the weapon he going to give away, but i feel that the system "automatically" pick up the weapon for you its pretty wrong... so wrong. its just like if TF2 when you were to craft scrap metal, the system pick up automatically the collector weapon or strange weapon from your backpack just because those are "first" on the priority list in your inventory (of course this its and example) and also lets add that the game dont show the rarity color of the weapon so it make it look like a normal weapon and pum there goes your strange weapon or collector weapon. your bad? yes your bad to no check out which weapon was in the crafting slot. but that dont take away that its a pretty bad system that could be improved.

one thing its your bad when the system have all the ways to show you the thing you going to do, but its also another thing a bad system that can lure you into a trap because the system dont give you enough info.

the best way to fix this problem? let the player to PICK UP the weapon that the mission ask, from his/her inventory. even yet if OOO is too lazy to do that they can simply add a warning before hand over a lvl 10 weapon like "are you sure to give out (weapon) lvl 10?"

honestly the system can be improved to avoid this kind of trouble as well some time that take away from support by reviewing this type or problem, as well they can also improve other things with this game.

well sad to hear about this trouble hadesrebellion... greetings to you before to leave because:

incoming OOO inquisitors in 3...2...1

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 16:18

#18

Vohtarak-Forum

im vohtarak, call me by that name

I find it really funny when people screw up a completely avoidable situation then feel entitled to a GM fix

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 16:22

#19

Fangel

Well yeah.

It's the player's fault if they give up their item optionally. However, it's the current system in place that can be annoying. If players kept those warning prompts on and never turned them off they likely wouldn't have problems like this - perhaps that's an option that can be added? An "are you sure you want to confirm this mission?" prompt, much like the lockbox opening one. Only bad thing is people will turn it off then still make the same mistake, but at that point it is due to the player, not the system.

The GMs are here to help the players, and enforce the system. If the system messes up, the GMs are more than happy to fix it. If the player messes up, the GMs use their better judgement to say whether or not this is something they can help with, and if the player is being rude the GM has every right to decline the request. They're people too, you know...

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 16:26

#20

Skepticraven

↓

@Fangel

All supply missions have a checkbox saying "are you sure that you want to give those items for the mission?". It isn't a prompt, but it is the same type of deal.

jeu, 01/08/2015 - 17:07

#21

Fangel

Well there's your warning.

I guess that's the little safeguard already in effect. It's the player's responsibility to take care of their account and belongings, and for these missions it's more the player not reading the fine print, even though this "fine print" is just a sentence.

/shrug

ven, 01/09/2015 - 00:24

#22

Holy-Nightmare

.....

Even on PCs there have been features on them for a long time to prevent very bad things from happening

Go run the CMD and tell it to:

del *.*

It will ask you if you are sure (Y/N)?

Why? because if it automatically did that you would have deleted every kind of file from that location. And in some places that can be horribly catastrophic. (like "call the Geek Squad you are SCREWED" bad)

A simple system that made it greatly obvious to a player what item they were going to use in Crafting, Daily, or whatever would be appreciated.

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"Arms Appropriation" Support Request -- Finally Replied