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A change for weapons and defensive sets

11 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
Fr, 02/06/2015 - 17:57
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Trats-Romra

About weapons

I noticed that bombs, differently of swords and guns, are less "hybridizable". I mean... bombs aren't always a good pair for a weapon. When you pair sword and guns, you can use both more easily. That's the point: Bombs aren't easy to use on their own like swords and guns.

I suggest that OOO decrease a BIT bombs' charge time, fast swords' damage, slow swords' speed, 3+ shot guns' damage, 2 shot guns' speed (Obs.: See that I'm not trying to be too specific, because it would make a extensive text and I want to keep it simple). With this change, I suppose that bombs will be a bit more "hybridizable" and sword and guns are a bit less "hybridizable". So using each weapons on their own will be good, with or without class armors.

About defensive sets

I think you all know that defense has a curve on damage that it reduce: if you have too much defense, the additional defense will do less effect, practically no effect. I suggest that defensive sets modify this curve, letting these sets reduce more damage. Of course, just one piece will modify less this curve than a full set, so you can't exploit mixing defensive and offensive sets.
It may be a unique feature, but I found it necessary to defensive sets.

Well... It's all, folks. Any improvements on the suggestion or anything, comment below.

P.S.:If OOO change the weapons on the way I proposed, Plate sets would need buff, adding universal damage or ASI.

So, 02/08/2015 - 09:15
#1
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Chaos-Mist
Warning: Superiority Complex.

Of course bombs need to be made equal. They have the least support in the game, the worst specialist line and altogether the least weapons. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen. xD
All one can do is wish for a bomber update.

So, 02/08/2015 - 15:40
#2
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Fehzor

Bombs

I would agree that bombs aren't as synergistic as swords are to guns but I'm also quite impressed by the way that swords and guns work with one another to provide interesting game play. Perhaps a best solution would be to alter bombs and only bombs, so that all of the pieces fit well rather than less well. A while ago I suggested inverting the way bomb's worked to allow them more flexibility with regard to synergy-

Charge attack = store up to 3 (can be increased to 9? "Bomb storage increased: MAX!") primed bombs of each type.

Normal attack = drop a bomb, instantly. Just like dropping a charged bomb right now.

Decreasing charge time (as you said) would also really help out bombs, and might be a little bit less farfetch'd than my suggestion. If my suggestion did make it, I would love to see a charge time decrease to go along with it.

Armors

The armor suggestion is a classic by now, and has been discussed since forever. Your solution would work but I've heard better. One of the things I would personally like to see for it would be defense ups that go beyond just the bars. So you'd have skills associated with defensive armors, things like "Shadow damage halved" or "Damage taken reduced by 80% when at full health".. or, if the developers are feeling particularly crazy, things like "90% of damage done translated into status effect" could be added to select armors. This would fix the armor situation up quite nicely.

Mo, 02/09/2015 - 14:23
#3
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Mephisto-Philus
@Fehzor

Okay I like the storing charged bombs thing but can you put Charge Time Reduction MAX on Crystal Bombs series with 9, then unleashing it? or Vortex or Nitronome? Lag or OP is the con. ;C I love the idea so badly.

Mo, 02/09/2015 - 16:23
#4
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Fehzor

Yes, you could do that with any bomb under my idea.. it'd let you charge it up and then store it faster. In this way, the charge time reduction would be less meaningful but still pretty useful.. less time running around storing bombs to use.

If they did make bomb storage a stat that you could increase up to 9, I would expect a larger cooldown between actually putting bombs down.. so like, you could spam them much faster once they were all charged, but it wouldn't be instantaneous. That would be a disaster when it came to things like dark retribution- instantly dropping 9 of it would kill just about anything that wasn't heavily resistant/immune to shadow damage.

Lastly, the point isn't just to unleash a bunch of bombs and kill everything, it's to combo them with swords and guns. So if I'm a hybrid using shivermist buster and blitz needle, I can drop a shiver and then charge a trojan really quickly, then pull out shiver and immediately drop it again. Or, with my griddle of justice, I BASH the enemy in the head, or I burn them like so!

---Also we're going a bit off topic with this and I should keep my idea to myself...----

Di, 02/10/2015 - 15:56
#5
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Trats-Romra

@Chaos-Mist
Thanks for your support

@Mephisto-Philus
Thanks for bumping my thread

@Fehzor

Bombs

Your idea seems neat, but nine would be too much.
Maybe each bomb should have your own limit of bomb storage. Shards would have 4, Hazes just 2, Deconstructor have 3, etc.

And yes, a charge time decrease would be very good.

Armors

I thought it would be a good solution, because the damage reduction curve that make these sets bad. If just these armors ignored a part of the effect of this curve, they would pratically halve damage of incoming attacks. And... "90% of damage done translated into status effect" seems a bit bezerk, a thing more to sets like Drake set or Vitapod suit.

@Everyone
Sorry for replying so late.

Di, 02/10/2015 - 17:27
#6
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Chaos-Mist
Warning: Superiority Complex.

@Trats-Romra

"Deconstructor have 3"
- Are you using Deconstructor to represent all blast bombs (Nitro, BAB, Snarby, Decon...the other one...can't remember...)? Or do you just think decon deserves it's own values? Personally I think 3 is a bit much for blast style bombs. Imagine charging up 3 Big Angry Bombs then walking into LD. May only be 3 shots but you just got 3 BABs planted purely though a tiny amount of play in your safe area. Plus imagine spawn trappers using a system like that. :|
Shards need as many as possible, 4 is good and I would say 5 is always possible. Hazes should have 3/4, since they wouldn't be dangerous pre-stacked since their singular status doesn't stack (you can't freeze someone 3 times at once and hope it'll last 3 times as-long as once) so Hazes being at 2 would be pointless. Would Retribution be allowed to stack?

Di, 02/10/2015 - 17:57
#7
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Trats-Romra

@Chaos-Mist

Yes, I meant Deconstructor. It have a lower AoE, lower knockback than other blast bombs and does less damage. I thought it justified storage of 3 decons.

About hazes, I agree. I forgot that status don't stack. 3 could be reasonable.
I tried to think a limit to Retribution, but I'm not used to this bomb (since i haven't it), so I had no idea how much would be reasonable.

Mi, 02/11/2015 - 07:41
#8
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Chaos-Mist
Warning: Superiority Complex.

Well it's super-speedy charge time, and rapid hit speed (plus shadow damage, so works extra well vs Jelly and Gremlin) make it, IMO, the best AoE weapon in the game. It's DPS for a bomb is stupidly high and it's easily spammable as it is WITHOUT stackable bombs. Hence, I see it as a hole in your nice idea.

Do, 02/12/2015 - 08:56
#9
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Fehzor

Well since we're going to discuss this- 9 was just an "if it went all the way..." type of thing. Perhaps it would make the most sense to cap it at 5 with 3 as the "usual amount". So you could store 1 bomb normally, and then you'd be able to get bomb storage +1 perks for a total of 5 bombs regardless of type. Maybe make the perk go higher if you're using something like mad bomber. So-

4* and below demo: +1 bomb storage +1 bomb CTR
Volcanic demo: +1 bomb storage +2 bomb CTR
Bombastic demo: +2 bomb storage +2 bomb damage
Mad bomber: +2 bomb storage +3 bomb damage +2 bomb CTR +1 bomb MSI (movement while wielding bombs)
Mercurial demo: +1 bomb damage +1 MSI +1 bomb storage
Kat hiss cowl: +1 bomb damage +1 bomb CTR +1 bomb storage
New possible armor: Piercing + normal + poison resists, +2 bomb storage +1 bomb CTR

If you made all bombs have different stored amounts, it would be confusing and wouldn't allow for equal buffs per bomb. This is important because it allows for balances like the one I suggest above- that bombastic demo become the damage+bomb storage armor and mad bomber become the 100% bomb stats upgrade.

As I said above, dropping bombs would still have an animation and cooldown, akin to the current "normal bomb attack" animation that creates a puff of smoke when you fail to place a bomb.. this would mean that you couldn't whip out 5 dark retributions without standing about taking damage like an idiot. You'd be able to get one or maybe two down, then you'd have to dodge etc. if you wanted to avoid said damage.

Do, 02/12/2015 - 15:38
#10
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Trats-Romra

@Fehzor
I see... Setting this on 3 would be good. Maybe each one could have a different cooldown. So you could make shards more spammable, Nitronome reasonably spammable, etc.

I'm discussing this, because it's interesting and would make bombs more "hybridizable". You can charge, keep it charged, change to it and use when needed.

Do, 02/12/2015 - 19:09
#11
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Chaos-Mist
Warning: Superiority Complex.

@Fehzor
If you slow them down by still having that motion, so as to make it less-spammable you are also killing the idea behind this thread. Bombs need to be able to use at speed, but some just shouldn't. Big Angry Bomb and Dark Retribution should have low storage but other bombs should have around 2/3.
The difference through making the armours give the changes, or making the weapon do it isn't that heavy of a change. The real advantage I can see from giving it to the armours is to make Mad Bomber a decent armour.

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