Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Arcade redux Ideas

12 replies [Last post]
Sun, 02/15/2015 - 15:30
Dgie's picture
Dgie

Note the following is a mix of suggestion plus speculation

So we were promised an arcade redux and i hope it still is in the works. (maybe in a few years :p)
However i started to wonder about how the arcade could be change to be more open ended

So for starters i was thinking that the levels would be redesigned to be a lot more open ended. Aka their are many mutually exclusive paths that the knights can take. You know that room in FSC where you can take the left or the right party button but not go through both. I was thinking that the whole levels would be desinged like that (minus the part where they join back together). Each path would lead to a different elevator that takes you to a different floor. what do you think of this?

any other ideas?

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 20:58
#1
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Any ideas? Tons.

Glad to see you're of the same mind as me, with things like branching paths. Those would be awesome.

Sun, 02/15/2015 - 21:39
#2
Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm, vohtarak, call me by that name

Each path leading to a different next depth is a really bad idea, it forces players to choose and get yelled at/kicked/etc if they guess the wrong path, then there's the issue over deciding which path to take in the first place, unless solo that will be really annoying and possibly time-consuming

Mon, 02/16/2015 - 13:30
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Oohnorak

"Each path leading to a different next depth is a really bad idea."

I don't have much more than anecdote, but I do think that it could actually work pretty well.

To start, we've already got this in place where your options are to wait for the optimal level or to go straight ahead. In theory, this should cause a much higher degree of turmoil than the split path suggestion- do we visit the D24 compounds now? Or wait for the wolver den that lies just beyond it? This sort of scenario happens all the time. The same decision takes place whenever a danger room is encountered- do we use time and energy and crystal energy now for better resources, or do we keep going and ignore it? Finally, we already have split paths, but to a much smaller extent in levels like firestorm citadel and Ironclaw munitions factory.

The split path suggestion is always equal to or better than these scenarios, because it has less factors to consider and offers a more obvious choice. For instance, if each path is the same length and difficulty, it's a matter of preference. While there are a number of people that cannot handle such a monumental and inconsequential decision being made against their favor, I'd like to think that the bulk of knights are willing to compromise and have observed them doing so.

If the split path was a HUGE decision; i.e. each path provides different rewards, then the party would decide ahead of time and discuss where they were going and group up appropriately. Players also already do this whenever they log on and choose a run to join as well as during events like Apocrea and MOUNT DOOM: XMAS EDITION-- Apocrea can either act as a series of arena levels if you'd prefer radiant fire crystals, a source of tokens if you're lacking an obsidian piece that you want, or a source of whatever comes your way if you're all willing to compromise+need both while the evil Christmas event has multiple exits for varying levels of loot. It isn't uncommon for players on these levels to decide whether they're going all the way up the mountain/leaving at a specific point or in the case of Apocrea what strategy they'll be using on the arenas.

---------Strengths-----------

Lastly, the strengths of such a system are pretty enormous, should the developers choose to endorse them.

Imagine a set of three (T3 only) levels called "Gremlin Laboratory" that are always parallel to one another, each with a different themed level before it. These levels would be like functioning versions of the compounds we see normally.

-Gremlin Laboratory-

Level 1. Splitter level = features sign posts telling the knight what's ahead so they can choose, primarily gremlin guards and gremlins shipping crates around.

Levels 2+3 set A = Undead + gremlin; as if the gremlins were experimenting on the undead. Grave scarabs everywhere. 2 levels
Unique fight: 2 respawning gremlin menders, 3 waves of scarabs and gremlin knockers

Levels 2+3 set B = Slime + gremlin; gremlins doing science on slimes. Like a lesser version of C42 with glop drops everywhere. 2 levels
Unique fight: constant falling missiles with loads of glop drops + 1 mender on the last wave

Levels 2+3 set C = Beast + gremlin; gremlins breeding dust buns to use in combat against the Spiral Order. 2 levels
Unique fight: gremlin stalkers with respawning dust buns; lots of respawning explosives

Special drops from A/B/C = Unique gremlin schematic that becomes obsolete and disappears with the gate

Level 4. End level = A shorter fixed compound with extra gremlins instead of minis; randomly has 2-4 of 7 extra areas

  • (common) Areas a/b/c = unlocked via giving up 1 gremlin schematic from level set A/B/C
  • (uncommon) Areas ab/bc/ac = unlocked via giving up 2 different gremlin schematics, one from A+B, B+C or A+C
  • (rare) Area abc = unlocked via trading away one of the 3 gremlin schematics
  • Each area would contain a small number of tokens towards getting new dustbun/slime/beast themed battle sprites/reskinned battle sprites/gear, to make it all worthwhile should you play through the gate enough times. This kind of thing existing in the arcade and not the mission system is almost impossible right now, but could easily be done with branching paths. The purpose of it would be to drastically increase replayability and provide incentive to go on and master new and difficult areas, as well as to entertain.

    In the example above, the first time the party went through they'd all have schematic A and at least 3 new schematics in a party of four would always be born, as the party could only open gate area A. The second time, the party would benefit most from going on the B path, as this would make for 3/7 areas the party could go on, and would end up with at most 4 A/4 B schematics and at least 1 A schematic and 2 B schematics remaining between them. The third time they went, the party would most likely go for area C, and would end up with at most 3 of 2 schematic and 4 of the last, and at least no remaining schematics (would require exactly A+C, B+C, A+B+C, and C, with 2 B and 2 A going in). But lets say I have 2C and 1A schematics going into a fresh party that hasn't been through yet. If we do B, then I can use my schematics to allow us to visit even more areas, but if we do A or C we gain less.

    So the party gets to the splitter level or Haven or someplace and talks it over to decide an optimal path with optimal team members, and uses the schematics they've found to go down the best possible route. This sort of thing is communication and team work at its finest, and Spiral Knights is almost certainly a cooperative game.

    Mon, 02/16/2015 - 13:06
    #4
    Vohtarak-Forum's picture
    Vohtarak-Forum
    I'm, vohtarak, call me by that name

    I read through that twice and didn't see you address my point
    I'm saying that, for example, if there's a path that goes to an elevator that has a compound, and one to an arena, like the OP described, its pure guesswork, so if someone picks the compound path on accident, then they will most likely get insulted/kicked/whatever for something they can't know beforehand, the current system is better in the sense that you can get what you want, you just might have to wait for it, the split path will just screw you over if you guess wrong with no way to fix the situation other than restart and guess again on a differently generated path, as depths aren't set in stone aside from the sky islands and a few others

    Mon, 02/16/2015 - 13:12
    #5
    Fehzor's picture
    Fehzor

    The game can also just have a sign post whenever there's a branching path, or indicate it somehow. And go read it a third time, I fixed some stuff and added a second part. Maybe just read the second half of it.

    Plus the current arcade setup has very little way to tell what level is coming up as is. Like, you really don't know until you get to the elevator whether it'll be an arena or what.

    Mon, 02/16/2015 - 13:39
    #6
    Vohtarak-Forum's picture
    Vohtarak-Forum
    I'm, vohtarak, call me by that name

    The edited in second part makes sense, it can help bring back the arcade pretty well

    And a sign post idea would fix any problems I see with the system, just copy paste one of those screens from the gauntlet with the elevator symbol, that's really the only thing you put in that's relevant to my first comment

    Ps "plus the current arcade...arena or what" there's a gate map on the HUD, and opening missions also shows the gate map

    Mon, 02/16/2015 - 14:09
    #7
    Fehzor's picture
    Fehzor

    Yep. I only meant that there's no indication of how long the levels will be in place for and the decision only presents itself at the end of the level.

    Mon, 02/16/2015 - 14:12
    #8
    Vohtarak-Forum's picture
    Vohtarak-Forum
    I'm, vohtarak, call me by that name

    Oh, you were talking about it in relation to rotation time, that definitely needs a fix too

    Tue, 02/17/2015 - 05:40
    #9
    Dgie's picture
    Dgie
    One more idea

    I just had this other idea that seems pretty cool. Instead of going into the arcade in parties their can be up to several groups. (say 8 people max) as enemies spawn throughout the level (giving small amounts of cash). Boxes only drop thing when you break them to keep things fair and each way you can pick which gate to go by choosing the one way gate.
    This probably would cause the game to crash since it cant handle this but it seem pretty cool

    Tue, 02/17/2015 - 07:45
    #10
    Chaos-Mist's picture
    Chaos-Mist
    Warning: Superiority Complex.

    @Dgie

    "(say 8 people max)"
    - 4 is the most efficient number. Fewer people = more speed. More people = more defence, it balances out at 4 people. Having 8 people...what happens if, in the worst case scenario 7 people are acting slow as hell...just saying...

    Tue, 02/17/2015 - 08:34
    #11
    Fehzor's picture
    Fehzor

    The larger party run has been an idea since forever, but it hasn't ever really been added. I wouldn't mind seeing a few select runs made as a sort of "boss rush" type mechanic, but it would have to be for some sort of an event. Most of the concerns fall back on the difficulty increase with more people in terms of monster health and the knight's ability to cope, which goes like so-

    Number of knights...monster health
    1....100% = base monster health
    2....133% = 33% more
    3....166% = Yes, this is linear
    4....199%
    5....232%
    6....265%
    7....298%
    8....331%

    Monster health per knight ratio-
    1 knight = 1
    2 knights = .66
    3 knights = .55
    4 knights = .49
    ...
    8 knights = .41
    Infiknight = .33

    So the game would get much easier with a party of 8 in terms of how much damage is expected of each individual knight, but there is a sort of secondary effect that you would expect to see as well in that a party of 8 might happen to have a few weak links....

    Knights performing at 100% of their effort = percent of monster health each knight is responsible for
    8 = .41 = if everyone is effective, it works incredibly well
    7 = .47
    6 = .55 = if two knights are AFK/worthless, the difficulty is the same as having 3 knights
    5 = .66 = Same efficiency as having 2...
    4 = .82
    3 = 1.1 = harder than solo
    2 = 1.65
    1 = 3.31 = You are now carrying seven people.

    So as you can see, the math does come out to where the game would function with this number of people, but failure to communicate and inability to deal damage in such a fashion would be huge factors for a run like this-- especially since knights being hindered by other knights might reduce their effectiveness.. so if we had 2 AFK party members and were half as effective due to cutting each other off, all 6 active knights would be better off solo.

    Using a strategy, the knights could go WAY above and beyond what is ever expected of them.. for instance, a party where each of the 8 members brought some combination of shivermist buster and the various autoguns would be just about unbeatable- in a party of 1, you might go shiver, bltiz, shiver, blitz.. but in a party of 3 + 1 shiver, you'd be going shiver/blitz/blitz/blitz, shiver/blitz/blitz/blutz.... which would mean that you'd be 1.5x more effective due to attacking 6x as often for 3 extra party members. The 8 shiver+blitz party described above would be able to go a step further and reach 14x the attacks a solo knight would have, making them 1.75 times as effective on top of their lower ratio of health.

    The down side to this is that stepping on each other would be awful as well as commonplace. For instance, imagine if half the party tried to use brandishes and vortex bombs but a select few people brought weapons like blast bombs and pulsars to the fight. Only one group could really be fighting at a time, since the strategies cancel each other out, and dipping below an efficiency of 4 100% knights would be miserable.

    Would it be worth giving a shot? Yeah sure, but only in a specific context that provides a basis for it. Like for the Christmas event next year- we could be given a huge arena with gremlins to fight in a party of 8. Maybe like the knights are ambushing the grinchlins or something. It would be cool and zany, but not serious enough to detriment the games via the problems outlined above.

    Tue, 02/17/2015 - 21:39
    #12
    Aizuh's picture
    Aizuh
    Arcade Redux

    I believe the reason why the developers are making an arcade redux is so that everything goes hand in hand and fit with the artifacts story. Right now we're all in a dream like state since we hit the planet. I believe that this is only for what they want and that is the upcoming war between the Knights and the swarm since it'll have an open-world feel.. but this is only a theory of mine and a friend. I believe the redux will be the battlefield for us as knights so they may make it possible for many of us to join the same area(s) fighting the swarm. There maybe more to it later though..

    Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system