Spiral Knights - Status of the Game
Di, 06/04/2019 - 19:46
Hello Grey Havens and players,
I am a long time player for Spiral Knights, and there are a few things I would like to discuss in this thread.
With the removal of steam trade, many old merchants have left due to the huge reduction of trading availability. The reason steam trade was removed was due to reported scams. However, in Spiral Knights, the unbind system itself is open for scam, as the seller for a 5 star item does not want to spend 4,000 energy unbinding something that may not be sold, and the buyer does not want to trust the seller with 4,000 energy as there have been scams in the past.
Other issues include the heating system. In older times, the heating system involved each leveling progressing as heat was attained without the need for forge. This new system is ok, however radiant fire crystals are too rare for newer players to farm and they end up quitting once hitting 5 star gear due to the massive grinding necessary to level a single item let alone a set. If the heating system was reverted, or if the current system was balanced it would help newer players progress the game. An example of balancing the newer system involves making a set destination for each star orb/crystal to be found in the clockworks. E.g:
Depths 0-4 you can find 0 star orbs and crystals.
Depths 5-8 you can find 1 star orbs and crystals.
Depths 9-13 you can find 2 star orbs and crystals.
Depths 14-18 you can find 3 star orbs and crystals.
Depths 19-23 you can find 4 star orbs and crystals.
Depths 24 onward you can find 5 star orbs and crystals.
This method would allow people to choose another farming strategy other than Lord Vanaduke for farming specific orbs and crystals. This would also improve the orb system as we would not need to increase the rate of orb drops, as the old energy craft system is still in place and orbs are a rarity.
Another method that could be implemented into the game is the reduction of unbind costs on equipment. With reducing the cost of 5 star unbinds to 1,000 energy, and other equipment being reduced in accordance with that, the reduction of scams can be easily seen. The market price for each item will also drop, allowing more items to be attainable while adding profit for the sellers. Example: Right now, an attack speed medium Combuster is worth around 6,000 energy. 4,000 energy is needed to unbind this weapon, which means the seller only makes 2,000 energy. If unbinds were 1,000 energy and the price of Combuster drops to 4,000 energy, the seller makes more profit and the buyer spend considerably less money. This would also be seen in more expensive items that are released and exist within the market, meaning selling existing weapons means more than it does now, providing newer players with more accessibility to good weapons while profit exists for current merchants.
A method talked about within many discords that I'm apart of involves either the removal or reduction of Lockdown signup fee, or the increase of profit/reward in crowns for winning a game of Lockdown. Lockdown is a much favoured PvP mode which has died down to only pro players and the odd few who want Krogmo Coins. Creating more profit gives people an extra push to revive Lockdown and generate more players who can play Lockdown more than just for Krogmo coins.
Lastly, relating to the unbinding of equipment, the same should be implemented to recovering bound accessories. Right now, recovering an aura costs 10,000 energy, which is ridiculous for anyone to pay if it's not an extremely high-end aura. Most bound auras have lost all their worth and no seller wants to use most of their profit to simply unbinding it and giving it away. Reducing the cost of aura unbind to 1,000 - 2,000 energy, as well as other recover items will allow more merchants to sell items that they wouldn't originally, growing the market even more than it is now.
Spiral Knights is dying. I'm a player that loves this game and has thought hard about how we can improve the game to the point where everyone can see Spiral Knights in a more favourable way. I would like to hear both Grey Havens thoughts and the Spiral Knights community my ideas. If Grey Havens supports my ideas, I would be happy to assist in the revival of Spiral Knights in any way I can. Feel free to contact me on this forum or in-game.
Thank you for taking the time to read this message,
Funnybunnys.
Di, 06/04/2019 - 22:15
#2
:o
+1 to this idea
Di, 06/04/2019 - 23:13
#3
@Fallen-Feces
I agree with you. However, if fire crystals were balanced, it would show how the current system shouldn't be as bad as it is currently. If the balanced system still find unfavourable attention from the community, then the best way would be to revert the heating system. It all depends on how Grey Havens wants to move forward, so I proposed both ideas.
Mi, 06/05/2019 - 01:16
#4
Oh boi
sounds good to me, helps in the long run.
Mi, 06/05/2019 - 01:29
#5
/yes
anything but to let the game die.
Mi, 06/05/2019 - 05:26
#6
+1
I approve of this
Mi, 06/05/2019 - 07:56
#7
Sure
Most prices in this game are just way too expensive to be honest, it needs to be nerfed.
Fr, 06/07/2019 - 05:58
#8
+1
+1
grey havens aint doing nothing to make the game better and wont listen to players
Fr, 06/07/2019 - 11:22
#9
Nice Work, Mate!
+1
Sa, 06/08/2019 - 02:40
#10
Ugh. I wrote you a response and it was nice and then it derailed into how the devs hate us and don't read this and then it turned into me suggesting you drink alcoholic beverages and play on a smurf so that we can pretend we have new players. But seriously though, we just need to redo the entire game using the existing assets at this point. The whole thing is an incoherent mess, and you're like poking it with a stick hoping it will get its life in order.
Sa, 06/08/2019 - 15:50
#11
oh boi
Stumbled across this. Haven't done a response like this for a while.
1) On Steam trades and scams, yeah I see why they removed it personally. Scams can happen in-game, however it's a much more controlled environment and they have the tools to properly resolve things. A Steam scammer could act as an in-between of SK accounts and never suffer any consequences on Spiral Knights if they don't have an account on that Steam account, and scams involving payment processors can lead to legal suits or even an inability to process payments, which means no money coming in for the game. No-one wants that.
I believe the way they bypassed unbind scams is the ability to buy unbind tickets from the supply depot. They can only be used for one thing so it's harder to scam with them. Also easier to track down. I do think a trade + unbind option should be available in a single button press, however.
2) Current heating and orb systems are fine, the only issue with the system are radiant fire crystals and rarity droprates only being good on elite. Making drop rates static across all difficulty levels based on elite would be best.
It's worth noting that the system suggested above would hurt players more than help them. You need a full 4* set to progress to tier 3, so having elite orbs drop only in tier 3 would eliminate the entire purpose of orbs dropping in the first place. If anything, any depth past 24 should drop orbs of all star levels. I do agree radiants should either drop a bit earlier, or shinings should stop dropping entirely after depth 26.
3) Unbind costs dropping isn't a bad idea. I can dig it. With prize boxes being a money maker now-a-days, the need for energy sinks is much lower. The new-ish supply depot sales daily would also pick up the slack in terms of energy exiting the economy.
4) The lockdown signup fee is definitely a relic to the old paid elevator days, however the main appeal of coliseum is krogmo coins. By playing lockdown, you are converting your crowns to krogmo coins, and potentially winning back even more. The signup fee is very small and with free elevators, you should never be gated by it - you can make 800-1,200 crowns (4-6 lockdown games, if you lose every one) in less than 5 minutes by running the first depth of sewer stash.
5) Unbinding of accessories I'm in the same boat as my previous note. We're implementing new energy sinks into the game, I think it's fair to lower the cost on old sinks. Allowing us to unbind costume pieces would also be greatly appreciated.
As for the game dying comment, I don't entirely agree with that, but I've been disagreeing with that statement for literally years. Hard to say a small game is dying when its small community is still small, but we're still seeing fresh faces all the time. The end-game is shifting and changing, and people may be scrambling to hold onto what they can (steam trading is the current "this is what kills the game" thing. previous one was prize boxes. before that was forge. before that was paid elevators. you get the idea...) but it'll settle well enough.
Sa, 06/08/2019 - 21:59
#12
"Current heating and orb systems are fine, the only issue with the system are radiant fire crystals and rarity droprates only being good on elite."
I'll bite. I don't know why but I'll bite.
I've noticed something of a bottleneck with orbs of 3 and 4 star orbs alchemy. Specifically-
-kids begging for them daily, as I'm sure you've seen
-frequent suggestions made regarding orbs and the system in general, there's one up now...
-steam achievement statistics (about 1/3 of 4* players make it to 5* half make it from 3* to 4*)
I think this falling out occurs because Spiral Knights presents itself as a sort of linear role playing game, but instead of a continuous stream of new and fun upgrades like in titles such as The Legend of Zelda, Spiral Knights has relatively small upgrades that require effort to obtain and are uninteresting. Combuster is basically just blazebrand, which is basically just hot edge. When players realize this and are required to grind for minuscule gains that will ultimately cost them a fortune and frequently set them back, they leave out of exhaustion. For many people, Spiral Knights is just not a game worth playing the way it is now.
The solution I see is to redo the entire crafting system such that acquiring new gear requires some kind of interesting mechanic or puzzle. A good example of this would be earning sealed sword and antigua from playing the jelly king. That's fun and exciting, because you're doing something novel. Good design however would require you to do something interesting again to upgrade your sealed sword, and again to get it to five star.
The problem then becomes that this is a massive undertaking, and that we simply don't have the dev power to perform good game design at this point. I really don't have a solution to that. Grey Havens isn't going to accept help, hire someone new, or do it themselves, as we've seen. This is what I didn't bother to write. This is why I didn't bother to write it. There isn't really hope for real improvement in Spiral Knights, and we all just need to be fine with that or leave, sadly.
Sa, 06/08/2019 - 22:59
#13
@Fangel
I agree with most to all of your points, which brings me to think maybe applying the depth selection to crystals and not orbs. So you farm orbs at the current rate to craft a 4 star or a 5 star, then choosing where to farm to attain crystals for that equipment.
However with game dying point, steam charts show an obvious decrease overtime in playerbase: https://imgur.com/a/sRJossM. While a game may see fresh new faces, those faces don't last when 5 star heating is inevitably over-complicated, and older players quit either from lack of content or market pricing being unreal.
Things such as Lockdown tweaks was only for extra appeal for players who don't want to farm or anything really. If the change doesn't occur, that's also fine. Steam trading was only to bring the issue of scams happening within SK, which you've brought up with a trade + unbind option that should be available to happen simultaneously. That I agree with completely.
A lot of what you said is great, but if I were to make one change, it'd be to just remove the fire crystal system entirely, but increase the heat needed to level up by a reasonable amount. Even if fire crystals were made more fair in accessibility, I still find them to just be a pain to deal with. If you manage to heat up a piece of gear midway through a vanaduke run or something, you'd have to quit the run just to go level it up and, correct me if I'm wrong, risk losing a share of your tokens. Plus you have to get re-invited. Of course most floors have an arse box at the beginning, but we all know this isn't the case for boss missions and Vana just so happens to be great for heating and crown grinding...