Spiral Knights - Maxed out heat conversion.

Maxed out heat conversion.

26 replies [Last post]

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 22:45

Roxerab

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I'd like to have some kind of system so that heat isn't completely wasted when all of your items are level 10 already. Personally, I have 4 star gear all level 10, and I'm in that zone everybody knows and loves where progressing to 5 star gear takes a LONG time. Pretty much what I'm asking for is a system where when your heat has no use for leveling items, it is converted in to crowns, making for a great way to progress through the tiers at a faster rate. It's not really a realistic idea, but crowns dropping from jellies isn't really realistic either. Point is, this would be a great addition to the game in my opinion and would stop that sense of waste when you have a ton of heat that just gets flushed down the toilet at the end of a level.

Please comment and reply!

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 23:00

Plaguerider

-1

Sorry, but this is the way experience points have always worked, maxed out is maxed out. Buy a weapon slot or work on a different weapon, or shield.

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 23:29

Roxerab

re: Fowleravenged

I've played many a game in which your statement is false. I don't really understand your opinion of "It's this way it should always be this way." Revolutionary games almost always have some feature that the rest of the litter don't have. Difference is good.

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 23:40

Arctic-Fern

I am actually OK with "work on something new"

But I would not agree to convert the heat to crowns or CE. Nor into a "heat tank" (haha Megaman).
I just don't know where to put the heat.

OH I know, how about a global leaderboard...

"Top Heat Producers"
It doesn't even have to be a number, it can just be a bar where the top heat producer is always at 100%

There'd be bragging rights and maybe costumes and accessories for the winner. Resets every week like Lockdown and Blast Network rankings.

This is so heat doesn't go to waste even if it is not actually put into a weapon. It can give something for PvE fanatics to aspire to.

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 23:55

Roxerab

good idea, but not quite good enough.

At this point, I'm just going to say straight forward that I want to feel directly impacted by this extra heat that I have stored. It doesn't even have to be a lot of crowns, like maybe 100-500 depending on the little heat animation thingamajig. Also, it just sounds a little weird to have a heat leaderboard when heat is experience points. But then again, I was just the one who said that difference is good =P. When I used to play WoW, a nice little perk was that when you hit the max level, quests started to hand out more gold than before in exchange for not receiving experience points for completion. I don't know. Maybe it's comparing two games that aren't similar enough or maybe I'm asking for too much. Just a little bonus would be nice.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 00:42

Antistone

Um...

500/level is a TON; that would more than double the crowns received on many levels. When I read "doesn't even have to be a lot of crowns", I was expecting you to propose more like 10-50/level (not that I am endorsing the idea at that or any other amount).

Flip this around: why should the players who are leveling equipment receive FEWER crowns than you? They want to advance just as much as you do, and they're already playing at a disadvantage because their equipment isn't level 10. Why do you want to take crowns away from them?

Or, consider the incentives for the publisher: they want players to craft lots of different equipment, because that means they're spending more CE. If they reward people for playing with equipment that's already at max heat, they're encouraging players to stick with their current gear instead of crafting new stuff. Why would they do that?

Players always wish they had more stuff, but that doesn't mean the game would be better if we just gave everyone infinite money.

Next you're going to be asking for cash payouts for unused quickbar items at the end of a run! The game is interesting when you make the best use you can of the resources you get, not when you hoard them and convert them all into one resource.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 01:25

Starlinvf

*warning - shameless self plug*

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/13200

Not one of my better ideas, but it was meant to break up the monotony and find a use for heat in the process.

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:53

Roxerab

re: Antistone

500 crowns a level at the very max. We're talking like if you squeeze out the most heat possible in the most heat profitable level in the entire game. About your incentive to not craft new items, people who have maxed out everything have nothing more to do but farm crowns, and this should be made easier by the heat system. As for lower tier players, why wouldn't they upgrade? The game in its entirety is getting to the core to prove how far you've come. I don't see people just farming crowns at low tiers at all. I see it as a way to allow for less boring moments of crown farming just to get that one item that gets you 1/4 of the way into tier 3.

EDIT: concerning your quickbar items into crowns thing, you're right in that that would be too much. Also, 100-500 cr is just a very rough estimate. obviously the real numbers would come from the exact numeral amount of heat stored at the end of a level.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 00:26

Starlinvf

500cr a level is huge. Thats

500cr a level is huge. Thats almost an extra 3-4k for a T3 run.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 07:01

Khamsin

No. Though I wouldn't mind

No. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a feature in game that you can click a button and at the end of a run transfer all of your heat to someone. With guildies I have a system set up where I let them tab me for my heat. I wouldn't mind if 000 officially endorsed this concept and added a function to be able to sell your heat to a teammate each level without having to suicide multiple times.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 08:06

#10

Quailia

my two cents

I think maybe if all your gear is maxed out, it should be distributed evenly among your gate partners who do have things to level up? Perhaps that's a better way for conversion?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 08:12

#11

Quailia

In Adendum

Perhaps it would also be more interesting if when you do have a maxed out item equipped, that causes an increase in the heat gain boost for all other non-maxed items you have equipped. To put it another way, the heat that item WOULD have gained is instead re-routed to helping you upgrade other items faster.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 08:48

#12

Antistone

That last bit already

That last bit already happens.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 08:50

#13

Juances

Now that we have that new

Now that we have that new reward system- maybe we could use all the heat we get on a level for a re-roll?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:03

#14

Archon

I think it'd be awesome if

I think it'd be awesome if you have a plain ol weapon with or without a UV on it that when it reaches max lv 10 from heat it has a random chance of rolling and getting a UV or an addition UV ontop of any existing ones, much like the crafting chance, maybe lower.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:04

#15

Quailia

Ah, didn't realize that about

Ah, didn't realize that about the last bit. I don't think they wiki explains that very well then. I mean, there's the one line of, "Therefore, the fastest way to level a single item is to ensure that all other equipped items are already at level 10," but that comes at the end of a long winded explanation that doesn't seem to suggest it's doing what I explained above (at least that's how I read it).

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:16

#16

Migasangelo

note

"Flip this around: why should the players who are leveling equipment receive FEWER crowns than you? They want to advance just as much as you do, and they're already playing at a disadvantage because their equipment isn't level 10. Why do you want to take crowns away from them?"

^This

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:19

#17

Khamsin

"I think it'd be awesome if

"I think it'd be awesome if you have a plain ol weapon with or without a UV on it that when it reaches max lv 10 from heat it has a random chance of rolling and getting a UV or an addition UV ontop of any existing ones, much like the crafting chance, maybe lower."

I would love to "prestige" an item, getting a UV roll but degrading it down to level 1.

Sadly, I don't see that happening. One UV roll currently costs 20k CR. It seems unlikely that 000 would give us something worth the value of 20k CR at merely the cost of heat. Perhaps some sort of fee on top of the cost of heat for a UV would be worthwhile. This would give an almost limitless heat sink for players at the end game.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:22

#18

Migasangelo

selfish about non-level 10 players

"As for lower tier players, why wouldn't they upgrade? The game in its entirety is getting to the core to prove how far you've come."

why don't you upgrade to level 5? so you can use again the heat...

its really unfair for the upgrading players don't get that boost you are talking about

yes i think its a great ideia if that heat was not wasted, but not in a way it changes game play, you are just think in yourself, you are wasting heat, so what? like you said, upgrade your equipment, or buy new ones, so it's not losted

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:24

#19

Quailia

@Khamsin

+1 for the UV Chance with heat. Unlikely, as you said, but certainly an interesting idea.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:45

#20

Antistone

You already get UV-like

You already get UV-like bonuses for heating up an item (CTR on weapons, +health on weapons/armor). Adding an actual UV does nothing to address feelings of "wasted heat" (unless you can do it repeatedly on the same item), and doesn't even really help people who are looking for a particular UV (since the item is bound by that point), it just adds power creep.

On another tangent, I momentarily misunderstood the recent patch notes as meaning that the prize wheel was somehow linked to the heat you collected (rather than just appearing at the same time).

And I thought: heat shouldn't be converted into a consolation prize when items are max heat, but it should give some other benefit in addition to leveling up equipment, so that everyone will care about it at least a little bit. Mostly so that you still get some benefit for reviving your allies when they keep dying, so I can feel good about donating my health, instead of feeling like a sucker if I die later or like a jerk because I kicked my teammate while they were down.

Having your heat affect the odds of a good prize from the spin at the end of the level (in addition to leveling your equipment, if any) would be pretty cool.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:36

#21

Arctic-Fern

I'll reiterate my previous suggestion on this thread...

"Unallocated heat goes to global scoreboard"
"Bragging Rights and Cosmetic Prizes for weekly winners"

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:04

#22

Round-Shinigami

So-called "heat sink" - what

So-called "heat sink" - what is it? Why is it? Where is it?
Why would you want a reason to accumulate heat in the first place? Because its wasted? People waste TONS of time and $$ on computer games, do they feel bad about so much time, effort, tears, money, life being wasted?

...sometimes I do...

Back to topic. Would be interesting to implement a "prestige" level that doesn't get erased when weapon is unbound, or a kill counter, or a damage counter, so we would have bragging rights like "my sword did xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx ect damage total in last 20 years" >:D
IMO: if you have everything lvl 10, you don't have to worry about heat any more. Just accumulate crowns/ce to get that MAX/VH UV item you've always wanted to have. Or better yet: make a game-quitting sale, delete the remains of your proto knight (your knight is your stuff), restart from scratch and reach the top again.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 08:49

#23

Starlinvf

People have be lead to

People have be lead to believe that they are entitled to accumulate and store pretty much anything they can get they're hands on. The psychological draw seems to be even stronger when it involves something that will eventually max out (like Exp), and a desire to covert it to something else they can hoard or trade.

This happens in every game with some kind of hard cap, and is more prevalent in the MMO scene where advancement in-game somehow gets equated to social climbing. Those lost points could be used on something to make you more popular.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 10:19

#24

Juances

People argue about extra heat

People argue about extra heat and elevator wait times: merge both by spending heat for faster arenas.
This won't be a big issue since it should only save you 1-2 minutes(notice i said FASTER rotation and not Instant).

@Starlinvf has a good point anyways

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 12:15

#25

Khamsin

"You already get UV-like

"You already get UV-like bonuses for heating up an item (CTR on weapons, +health on weapons/armor). Adding an actual UV does nothing to address feelings of "wasted heat" (unless you can do it repeatedly on the same item), and doesn't even really help people who are looking for a particular UV (since the item is bound by that point), it just adds power creep."

Right, the idea was that you could continuously re-roll UVs on an item every time it reached level 10. So, you level it up to 10, pay some fee and set it to level 1 plus get a UV roll.

As for people asking why would you need a heat sink - otherwise you get silly stuff like suiciding to give someone else your heat or not caring to rez since you don't need their heat going on. That shouldn't be happening on a large scale but it does.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 13:25

#26

Birgus

Juances, that's genius. I

Juances, that's genius.

I was thinking along the same lines as Khamsin and Quailia since having suicide be a regular part of the game bothers me. When I read, "Crowns dropping from Jellies isn't really realistic either," I immediately thought the "realistic" option would be for heat to slowly distill into our unspecified other form of energy. If you can build up heat and do something with it, you can harness energy from its dissipation. Duh. I'm guessing if 50 Crowns per level is a reasonable rate then 1 energy per level should also be. Put it into the Mist buffer to minimise chance that some one will find a way for us to regret suggesting it.

I also like Juances' idea of rotating levels faster, obviously. I think the non-random rotating strata are global things so having different lineups for different parties might be a technical issue but that's just a guess from intuition. Either way, my most preferred choice is still the one that stops players from wanting to commit suicide. ;) Seriously, heat sharing would motivate me to dive with PUGs more often when I'm wearing completed gear, which would probably be good for the community.

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Maxed out heat conversion.