Spiral Knights - Make the Polaris/Supernova charge attack useful

Make the Polaris/Supernova charge attack useful

23 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

mar, 01/24/2012 - 16:10

Nicoya-Kitty

I honestly find myself completely forgetting that my polaris even has a charge attack. Currently the charge attack is just a pre-expanded bullet that does ~1.5x the expanded bullet damage, or ~2x the unexpanded. In the time it takes to charge and fire it, you could fire three regular shots.

Idea 1: Malfunction overload.

Charge attack would shoot out a regular expanded bullet, but the gun would also have a "overcharged/malfunctioning" explosion, roughly equivalent to a super blast bomb explosion centered on the player. (almost identical for the supernova, elemental/shock themed for the polaris)

Idea 2: Shotgun blast. (Stolen from another thread)

Shoots out a volley of 3 expanded bullets, fanned out similarly to either the DA charge (a wall of 3) or staggered to the left, right, then center.

mar, 01/24/2012 - 16:24

Juances

First idea +1
Second idea -1

mar, 01/24/2012 - 19:35

Fehzor

What Juances said... that or,

What Juances said... that or, buff the charge.. make it get EVEN bigger just like normal shots, except have it deal around 3X as much as it currently does... It could definitely use some work.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 19:33

The-Rawrcake

I think what it should do is

I think what it should do is an extremely fast 3 already-expanded bullets.

So imagine the current charge attack, just x3 which results in greater immobility but extra damage and knockback per shot among the 3 rapid shots.

And I think that even yet, the damage of the charge needs to be somewhere around double a regular shot.

It may sound unbalanced, but it would basically be x6 normal shots worth of damage in 3 bullets and no safety (can shoot up close)

Right now, all you should do for the charge attack is to utilize it for knocking back that, say, zombie that got into your range. And the charge attack is currently useful, just needs changed!

With the new charge attack, you can setup a charge before you hit a button / go into next phase of say arena so you can use all 3 charged shots on a gun puppy to obliterate it.

Then it would stay where it should be for the gun puppy obliterator gun because right now the Nova / alchemer charge attack is clouding the Polaris partially in obliterating gun puppies instantly.

mar, 01/24/2012 - 21:46

Aemicus

What, the Polaris isn't good

What, the Polaris isn't good enough already?

mer, 01/25/2012 - 00:30

Severage

The charge attack is utterly useless, which is the point of this thread.

~Sev

mer, 01/25/2012 - 01:44

Diabound

Have you given this any thought whatsoever?

Yeah, let's make the gun that has the most effective regular attack have a great charge. And while we're at it, here's an idea, let's make Gran Faust not cause curse on self and make three swords on charge attack like the DA, not like that's unbalanced or anything.

So yes, go ahead and get this upgrade, that way the catalyzer will officially be completely useless. Every weapon in this game has advantages and disadvantages, you're going to have to accept that.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 01:50

Newbyboy

...

Actually diabound,polaris have the worse charge then all the other unbalanced weapon,Not to mention the charge shot travel much lesser than the normal shots.
Actually the polaris charge just require a little tweaking,make the explosions Extremelly large and its travel distance a little more further than the normal shots travel

mer, 01/25/2012 - 01:54

Diabound

You didn't even read my post

You didn't even read my post did you? I said that it has the best REGULAR attack, and now you want to give it a great charge!? Yeah, keep praying

mer, 01/25/2012 - 08:00

Gianor

My opinion

I think that it should shoot a giant bullet, about 2X bigger than the current expanded one, and like above, when it hits, it should cause a big explosion damaging the radius of he super blast bomb.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 09:39

#10

Hmmnm

Combine the catalyzer and

Combine the catalyzer and Polaris line. In other words, have the Polaris regular attack with catalyzer's charge attack.

The polaris has a great regular attack (bit its charge attack is useless).
The catalyzer has a good charge attack (but it is very easy to miss enemies).

Combining the two would cover the weaknesses of each weapon.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 11:20

#11

Hexzyle

:| derrrrp.

@Gianor
So the blast bomb isn't good enough having to drop it near enemies, now we'd have a gun that fires blast bombs. I didn't need my vision anyway. [-_-]

@Hmmnm
And make an ultimate mega weapon that explodes when you primary fire and explodes even more when you secondary+primary fire???? I don't think so.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 17:59

#12

Aemicus

I think the charge attack

I think the charge attack sucks so much because the regular attack is amazing. Any buffs would make it unbalanced.

And as for the Super Blast Bomb charge idea... I don't think you have ever played this game. Not only would that piss the hell out of everyone, but imagine that in lockdown, or vs the Jelly King (goodbye little jellies). The Polaris does NOT need to be buffed.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 18:57

#13

Yechezkel

Count your blessings

Okay, I try not to complain about the Polaris and Supernova because I understand it's gear creep and bellyaching doesn't make anything any more balanced. However, as a long-time Storm Driver user, I must confess to occasionally being distinctly irritated that my beloved sidearm was totally invalidated by the advent of the Polaris. Allow me to break this down for you: the Polaris can fire three shots while the Storm Driver fires only two. Unexploded Polaris shots deal the same amount of damage as Storm Driver shots, with Polaris explosions dealing roughly 1.5 times the damage. The explosions produced by the Polaris make it a far more effective anti-group weapon than the unreliable ricochet action of the Storm Driver. The two inflict the same status effect; however, the manner in which the Polaris operates makes it a far more effective disperser of status than the Storm Driver. I am sure Valiance and Iron Slug users can lodge similar complaints regarding the Supernova.

I suppose one might wonder what, if anything, this tangent has to do with the proposed improved charged attack for the Pulsar lines. In brief, my sentiment is this: you don't need a better charge attack because you already have a better everything else.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 19:12

#14

Orangeo

"Idea 2: Shotgun blast.

"Idea 2: Shotgun blast. (Stolen from another thread)"
I think that was me :D
Oppisite of what juances said.
And I'd like the knockback on the bullets nerfed. But not so much as to let me get hit by all three shots directly.
And the x-tech handguns need a buff, the bullets should be bigger, and the range should be longer. Bounce shots don't hit much in pvp.
Also, the catalyzer charge/normal shots should be switched, and it should have more bullet speed.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 19:31

#15

The-Rawrcake

"The charge attack is utterly

"The charge attack is utterly useless, which is the point of this thread. "

Use the gun before you comment about it maybe?

Or maybe use the charge attack in the positions that gunners would?

"Yeah, let's make the gun that has the most effective regular attack have a great charge."

Wolver clones, GO AWAY. Polaris is not the only gun that exists because you use it on gun puppies.

"Actually diabound,polaris have the worse charge then all the other unbalanced weapon"

No it doesn't!

"Actually the polaris charge just require a little tweaking"

This! My idea suggested lets it do more than utility when something gets too close to you.

"You didn't even read my post did you? I said that it has the best REGULAR attack, and now you want to give it a great charge!? Yeah, keep praying"

Ok, have you ever used a gun BESIDES polaris? Ever?? Please explain yourself in detail and I will refute almost everything you say.

"Combine the catalyzer and Polaris line. In other words, have the Polaris regular attack with catalyzer's charge attack.

The polaris has a great regular attack (bit its charge attack is useless).
The catalyzer has a good charge attack (but it is very easy to miss enemies).

Combining the two would cover the weaknesses of each weapon."

This is an EVEN WORSE idea! let's just dumb down everything so nothing is unique!

"And make an ultimate mega weapon that explodes when you primary fire and explodes even more when you secondary+primary fire???? I don't think so."

Just because something explodes does not make it the best for everything, only shiny! Dangit People!

"I think the charge attack sucks"

No it does not it only needs tweaking T_T

"Allow me to break this down for you: the Polaris can fire three shots while the Storm Driver fires only two. Unexploded Polaris shots deal the same amount of damage as Storm Driver shots, with Polaris explosions dealing roughly 1.5 times the damage. The explosions produced by the Polaris make it a far more effective anti-group weapon than the unreliable ricochet action of the Storm Driver. The two inflict the same status effect; however, the manner in which the Polaris operates makes it a far more effective disperser of status than the Storm Driver. I am sure Valiance and Iron Slug users can lodge similar complaints regarding the Supernova."

The fact that one gun can fire 3 shots and another can fire 2 does not play a role in what gun is better. You can effectively skip reloading in both. You should invest in the Nova Driver for greater damage output that the storm. The storm is an AoE / utility gun. The polaris bullets do not do 150% each the damage of an alchemer bullet that is completely ridiculous. The explosion is Terrible in groups, only useful solo. In parties you use it to pick off one mob, Not an entire group! that annoys your entire party!. The ricochet is NOT UNRELIABLE! It takes a long term alchemer user to learn to position the split bullets and what pockets to shoot at and when to use the charge attack. It is not hard to deal 3 hits per shot in AoE, And you do not annoy your group because there isn't knockback!!!

"you don't need a better charge attack because you already have a better everything else."

I give up. Done. I have lost all hope in every gunner.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 20:05

#16

Yechezkel

I think perhaps you aren't as informed as you believe

Even the most rudimentary of gunners knows that you can fire a three-shot gun faster without triggering the reload than you can fire a two-shot gun. It's not a matter of using the reload, it's a matter of DPS. The Pulsar lines have better DPS than literally every single other gun. Further, it's quite obvious that appropriate spacing of the Polaris' explosive shots directionalises the knockback so as to be not only manageable but indeed excellent for crowd control. Further, the ricochet function of the Alchemer guns follows a randomly generated path. That is, by definition, unreliable. You cannot rely on something that is by its programming, random. Regarding your assessment of the relative damage outputs of the two weapons: you are mistaken. Please use both weapons, as I have, before you make such erroneous assessments. I agree that it is ridiculous that expanded Polaris shots do 1.5 times the damage of regular Storm Driver shots, but it is also fact.

Listen. I use the Storm Driver. I love my Storm Driver. But I have no illusions about my Storm Driver. The Polaris is, quite frankly, the singular best gun in the entirety of the Spiral Knights arsenal. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed or lying.

mer, 01/25/2012 - 20:13

#17

Severage

@The-Rawrcake:

Since I tire of your posts' mien, I'll simply reply to your quote to me.

"Use the gun before you comment about it maybe?

Or maybe use the charge attack in the positions that gunners would?"

Listen, buddy, I never said that I agreed with the OP nor did I say the gun wasn't powerful enough. Clearly this thread was placed here for a good purpose, even though the suggestion may be overpowered. The charge attack is useless. No matter which way you slice it. I didn't say I wanted a buff for it, I simply stated the obvious: Polaris' charge is useless. It's a fact. You can shoot 3 shots in the same amount of time as one charge, and do much more damage.

If anything, the charge needs to be altered, not buffed. As it stands, nobody uses it. At all. Period. Most people don't even use it when you get to a Party Button.

~Sev

mer, 02/08/2012 - 20:33

#18

Derpules

Buff the charge, nerf the regular

Not rocket science!

jeu, 02/09/2012 - 04:24

#19

Shue-Donnym

Wat

IMO Charge is useful against T2 and below mecha knights since they can be hit by one shot and block the rest of the clip(providing that they do get hit by a bullet, since oftentimes they even block the first one due to the speed of it. Also nearly all of my successful Pulsar hits on MKnights were unexpanded bullets. The rest are charge shots and a teensy, weensy bit of expanded norm shots. So yeah. Flame me. Go ahead.

jeu, 02/09/2012 - 13:19

#20

Hmmnm

Pulsar's main problem is that

Pulsar's main problem is that either
1. the enemies are so close there is no area of effect
2. the enemies are far enough away, but the shots blow up on the first enemy in the mob and the other shots miss.

How about if it shoots out a very small orb (sort of like a regular catalyzer shot). The orb then explodes if it hits an enemy or reaches its max range. The explosion is slightly larger than a regular expanded shot.

This would let you shoot into the middle of a mob, and hit a lot more enemies (be careful of enemies flying everywhere though).

Imagine comboing this with a graviton bomb....

jeu, 02/09/2012 - 16:12

#21

Nodocchi

How about making the charge

How about making the charge attack shoot a laser beam with medium damage and high knockback? I'm not sure if this will solve the problem, I just really want to shoot lasers.

jeu, 02/09/2012 - 18:52

#22

Clueless-Inferno

I agree with both Diabound

I agree with both Diabound and Derpules.
This gun needs no buffs whatsoever. Having a charge with an explosion the size of a super blast would be far too OP. I say leave the charge as it is, and decrease the normal shot damage. (It should be decreased anyways; it has a status effect and therefore should do less damage than it's counterpart, supernova. Just compare the pulsar lines damage bars, then the catalyzer lines damage bars, and you'll know what I'm talking about.)

An alternative would be to nerf the normal attack (less damage) in order to buff the charge. This could work.
In all honesty, though, this gun doesn't deserve attention. There are other weapons that desperately need a buff. (Compare winmillion to 4* avenger; which is better?)

Also, on a random note, killing someone with a Magnus charge in LD is awesome!

TL;DR Don't buff the gun.

jeu, 02/09/2012 - 22:58

#23

Diamondshreddie

i agree

my Supernova, i love him ... his name is Pulsey

but thats besides the point!! he needs a charge where he shoots all 3 of his clip pellets side by side and have them be overcharged! dealing more damadge and knock back!!

Recherche

Make the Polaris/Supernova charge attack useful