Spiral Knights - Micro-Progression in LD(or new mode)

Micro-Progression in LD(or new mode)

13 replies [Last post]

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 13:06

Nodocchi

I certainly hope I'm not the only one who thinks the current LD PvP mode is getting a bit dry, so I am going to propose either an addition to LD or a brand new PvP mode.

So we keep everything we have now in LD but on top of that we add a levelling system where players level up as they deal damage and kill enemy players within just that PvP match. The levels gained in one match does not carry over to any other match or any other part of the game for that matter.

Now, what are the benefits of levelling up? Well:
1. Bonus UVs. Each time a player levels up he/she gets a bonus UV based on selections the player made before the start of the game. Depending on how specific the selection is, the strength of the UV is affected. Say a player wants specifically Sword ASI increase, then that player would get an ASI increase Low when he/she levels up. But if a player is willing to gamble he/she can select that he/she alright with any UV, then that player can get any of the possible UVs at maximum strength. For example that player may get Sword ASI increase Maximum or he/she may get Sleep resist increase Maximum. There may be varying degrees of specificity and randomness inbetween as well with varying UV strengths.

2. Special abilities based on Class and/or equipment. I have no idea what kind of special abilities might be possible but I do think it would be interesting if every few levels a player would be able to unlock a special ability based on their chosen class or equipment.

Now some of you might be saying wouldn't this just give all power to the players with the best equipment who can then just become even more all powerful by racking on UVs as he/she racks on kills?

The short answer is no, they can't. As many of you may have already realized, some UVs are better than others and no UV of any one type can stack past Maximum. This means a player with Max ASI and Damage cannot actually get that much stronger, meanwhile players with worse equipment can quickly gain in strength during the match and may even rival the other player by the end of it. As well, each additional level takes exponentially more effort to obtain so it wouldn't be strange to see there being at most being a two level difference between the highest level player and the lowest level player by the end of a match. Various methods of helping lower levelled players level up like gaining experience from kills near the low levelled player can also be implemented.

I think this suggestion can really spice up our current LD playing experience so please support it everyone. :D

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 13:31

Melisan

It will just make the strong

It will just make the strong stronger and the teams too imbalanced, a fairer way would be to do it on a power up basis like blast network but randomly generated on the map (or at spawn points maybe) and have time limits rather than working until the next time you are killed. Also rather than UV's have health, energy bar recharge and status/damage type defence bonuses etc.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 13:39

Ztype

But the point of UVs Nodocchi

But the point of UVs Nodocchi is talking about is to make the game more balanced. But you could have health UVs etc as well but there is no limit to them (the limit for UVs is that they cant go above maximum). Also you could have the classes to be such so they force team work and weapons to vary, I remember someone mentioning something about a triangle, like rock, paper, scissors. Also maybe the classes could be to do with the players' gear? For example for full snarby set there could be a power-up which lets you go underground like snarby and make spikes in the ground?

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 13:43

Nodocchi

Indeed Ztype! I think my idea

Indeed Ztype! I think my idea can actually help balance LD in favour of the players with worse equipment. Also that snarby power-up sounds awesome though it will probably be a fairly high level ability. Please give suggestions for special abilities for other equipment and classes as well! :D

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:09

Melisan

Unfortunately, what Nodocchi

Unfortunately, what Nodocchi described would make the game extremely unbalanced. In theory the players get buffs for kills, who makes the most kills? The best equipped who won't benefit much from getting buffed or the less well equipped that would benefit more? So, now that you know why this is imbalanced.
The other problem is that i would be a complete pain to implement this format, it would also detract from the game itself due to over complication.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:30

Nodocchi

I don't think you understand

I don't think you understand just how useful some buffs are compared to others. In melee combat, ASI reigns king. For bombs, CTR reign supreme. So yes, I think this system if implemented right will make the game more balanced, those who are worse equipped will benefit more. Also remember that there are systems in place to help the lowest level player level up and higher levels would require so much more effort to level up compared to lower levels I highly doubt the best player can get more than two or 3 levels ahead of the worst player. Those levels hardly make a difference if the worse equipped players can get the really useful UVs they need.

In order for people to appreciate just how quickly expontials grow, let me give an example: let's say we are using the smallest increasing exponential with a whole number base. This would mean base 2. To reach level 1, a player would need 2 to the power of 1 kills which is 2 kills. At level 2 a player needs 2^2=4 kills at level 3 player needs 2^3=8 kills. In order for a player to be one level higher than another player, that player would need twice the number of kills, to be two levels higher would need 4 times the number of kills. I don't know which games you have been playing but I almost never see a player getting more than twice the average amount of damage as everyone else. Which under this system would be one extra level.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:31

Melisan

Nodocchi your ideas are well

Nodocchi your ideas are well thought out and well presented.
I am not the best lockdown player by a long way, but i can on occasion rack up 15k damage in a match with the next highest score may be around 2k max, that is the problem with the strong getting stronger and the weak getting pwned. Another thing is that people who have bought/crafted trinkets to help them in lockdown would be annoyed. Your system would work really well if everyone started in default gear or had their own UV's disabled during lockdown.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:34

Nodocchi

There is no reason to

There is no reason to alienate players who have invested time and money into getting their good gear, they can still benefit from this, it is just that those with worse gear will benefit more. Also, by the sound of it you are playing T2 lockdown, the situation you have discribed has never happened in any of the games I have played in T3. Literally never. The best I have seen is someone getting 3 times more damage than the next highest which only amounts to one extra level.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:45

Melisan

I have only ever played T3

I have only ever played T3 lockdown, I have been Tier 3 for a very long time. It sounds like you have never come up against some of the great lockdown players. Just because you have never seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 14:57

Nodocchi

Alright, since there is no

Alright, since there is no objective way of measuring the skill levels of the players I have played against I'll give you that point. But even in your example of such a huge lead, 15k vs 2k, that is still only a difference of 2 to 3 levels. 2000*2=4000, 4000*2=8000, 8000*2=16000, 16000 > 15000. So even then, amazingly geared players won't be able to have a huge advantage compared to worse geared players. Another thing to note is that in such a one-sided game, it is pretty much a given that the side with the 15k player will win. My system will not prevent that, the normal LD system will not prevent that, the losing team would have had to have gotten a huge advantage from the game in order to win. What my system will do though, is make close matches more intense and interesting as people gamble for a good max UV or unlock special abilities.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 04:03

#10

Ztype

Something interesting - I

Something interesting - I remember in another forum Melisan said that clockworks cost 200cr to join. In T3 they cost 500cr.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 04:14

#11

Melisan

Instead of following me

Instead of following me around and trying to "best" me in these forums Ztype, why don't you add something useful to the topic? You’re just being silly now and trying to hijack this thread by going so far off topic just to score points.
Above is a good constructive argument with good ideas from Nodocchi, the longer this continues the more refined and accessible his/her idea will become. If you want proof add me and i will show you otherwise shh.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 05:20

#12

Ztype

I do not follow you around. I

I do not follow you around. I just look at forums and that came up. Anyway, you said you were T3 for a long time. I just saw that quite recently. To add to that, everyone knows that there are ways to get around these tier limitations.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 09:52

#13

Nodocchi

I really think the combat

I really think the combat mechanics in SK would suit a DoTA style PvP mode. Throw in the classes in LD and I think we can get something really fun. Plus SK will probably get an influx of players from the DoTA community.

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Micro-Progression in LD(or new mode)