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Shadow / Elemental Damage Flourishes

11 replies [Last post]
Fri, 04/06/2012 - 09:26
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake

It's a somewhat solid suggestion. Some people like their mechanics, some people do not. In Lockdown, I hear that defenses towards shadow / elemental / piercing does not make a huge difference. Regardless of it making a difference, this game is in fact more PvE oriented and created based on PvE.

It would open up more options for swordsmen for shadow and elemental swords. Currently, it's a DA / GF vs. a brandish for them. Gunners have 3 options, IMF reward / Alchemer / Antigua.

However, swordsman also could use another piercing weapon with different mechanics.

If I want to get picky, we actually need an elemental DPS (nitronome-like) bomb that does not create knockback (similar to DBB) but that will be in another thread that I create.

I would like anyone who does not like this suggestion to please post below. If you like it, post that as well. Explanations are nice. If people dislike this, then it isn't really a good idea and I won't worry about this thread anymore. If we really wanted it, then we would keep this active without me paying much attention to this thread.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 09:53
#1
Beaoo's picture
Beaoo
....

http://bit.ly/I24PxV

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 10:05
#2
Sirenblue's picture
Sirenblue
This might kill the need of other swords

granted shield cancelling is a very powerful move.
(and by "kill the need" I mean "you'll only need to own these 3 swords to play this game")

There's a reason why the BTB and flourishes are the only piercing swords.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 10:11
#3
Treizeknight's picture
Treizeknight
-1

Unless shield canceling and other similar animation exploits are patched, don't expect this to happen since while lockdown is unbalanced as is, this would just turn the game into a giant toothpick match.

Also variety in weapons is good, having a weapon type that does all different types of damage would be boring.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 10:16
#4
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Are we thinking in-line with

Are we thinking in-line with the current flourish mechanic? Pure damage and all that? It would basically remove medium speed 3 swings being used for autoattacks. And they would, theoretically, have the best dps for single targets.

Even if it was split normal, I'm against this idea. Yes, it would give more options, but then rendor the original flourish/btb lines to be less unique, like the spur series.

Edit: @Treize: Shield canceling is an exploit? Better email OOO about that bug in the training mission that teaches you about it, along with the wiki sections that involve such an exploit.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 10:29
#5
Kentard's picture
Kentard
-1. Here's why:

Some people like their mechanics, some people do not.
I like the Flourish as a weapon. I just don't like the fact that its sheer power, speed and versatility makes it the optimum sword of choice for LD; nevermind the fact that the piercing version is bad enough, you had to throw in elemental and shadow flourishes too.

In Lockdown, I hear that defenses towards shadow / elemental / piercing does not make a huge difference.
Tell that to me as I come at you guns ablazing with an Umbra Driver, and you with no Shadow defence whatsoever.
Mind you, even that can wipe out strong Strikers in a few hits.

Regardless of it making a difference, this game is in fact more PvE oriented and created based on PvE.
Unless you want the swords in question to have separate mechanics for PvP and PvE, which will be deviously difficult to code, I don't see how this will be implemented anytime soon.

It would open up more options for swordsmen for shadow and elemental swords.
Unanimously we can agree that swords in general have the highest DPS of any weapon type in game (save for one specific gun); for this fact alone there can't be too many shadow or elemental swords.
That being said, I am open to having more of these swords, provided that they introduce new weapon mechanics into gameplay, as you mentioned in your post.

If I want to get picky, we actually need an elemental DPS (nitronome-like) bomb that does not create knockback (similar to DBB) but that will be in another thread that I create.
This, coupled with the fact that you want shadow/elemental Flourishes, seems inherently contradictory to your statement that we need new sword mechanics.
Again, what we need are weapons with new attack mechanics; though not so much for bombs since there's only so much you can do with them.

I think what we need are more diverse playing styles, not remakes of old swords in different damage variants.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 11:22
#6
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
"Again, what we need are

"Again, what we need are weapons with new attack mechanics; though not so much for bombs since there's only so much you can do with them."

I was talking about bombers, not swordsman. My fault for being off topic.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 15:48
#7
Atacii
No new flourishes.

No new flourishes. The old ones are already broken.

Fast hitting pure damage on a sword is already troublesome, but the first swing is a wide sweeping attack, which makes absolutely no sense for a piercing weapon and unbalances it for both pve and pvp.

It is fun to use though.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 09:08
#8
Kentard's picture
Kentard
Regardless,

Yes to more weapons. No to new Flourishes.

Even if they can miraculously balance out the elemental and shadow Flourishes, I can't foresee anyone getting any other sword besides those three simply because they're too useful.
That and we need more new sword designs and mechanics.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 10:25
#9
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Wizards fart

I agree we need more variety in weapon mechanics. However, I have recently pondered which of the three deserves greater variety due to lack thereof. We have three weapons with various mechanics identifying them as one sub-type. The following may explain.

______________Seperation line______________

Sword: 6

Standard: three hit, regular speed, fairly small swing range; Calibur, Brandish, Beast Basher, Slime Slasher, Hot Edge and Static Edge lines, Fang of Vog, Scissor Blades, Wrench Wand.

Heavy: two hit, slow speed, large swing range; Hatchet, Sealed and Troika lines.

Foil/Rapier: three hit, great speed, first hit has a large swing range but the two following are fairly thin in exchange for greater stab range in the direction the user aims; Flourish and Snarble Barb lines.

Cutter: five hit with one after-hit after each swing, moderate speed, slightly more swing range than standard due to the after-hit making contact slightly further; Cutter line.

Spur: three hit (when upgraded to Winmillion each swing also fires a projectile), regular speed, same swing animations as standard with more range; Spur line.

Rocket Hammer: three hit (the second hit is a slide which also damages enemies which make contact), the first and third swings are the same as heavy swords but with more speed; Prototype Rocket Hammer, Stable Rocket Hammer, and Warmaster Rocket Hammer.

______________Seperation line______________

Gun: 7

Standard: three shot clip, charge attack releases a single bullet with more damage than regular shots; Stun Gun and Blaster lines, Proto Gun, Frost Gun, Zapper.

Alchemer: two shot clip, (when upgraded to 3* and higher the bullets will bounce off of objects hit), charge attack releases a larger bullet (this large bullet releases smaller bullets after the large bullet is consumed, varies by rank); Firotech Alchemer, Cryotech Alchemer, Prismatech Alchemer and Shadowtech Alchemer lines.

Magnus: two shot clip, high bullet speed, user may not move while firing, firing causes the user to move back slightly, charge attack fires a larger bullet and recoils the user in knockback and knockdown; Magnus line, Punch Gun.

Autogun: two shot clip (each shot fires several bullets), moderately fast bullet speed, user may not move while firing, charge attack releases a floury of bullets for an extended time compared to the basic attack; Autogun line.

Pulsar: three shot clip, slow bullet speed, bullets expand and explode when allowed to travel a short while after being fired (expanded bullets cause knockback and increased damage compared to hitting the target before expanding); Pulsar line.

Catalyzer: three shot clip, slow bullet speed, charge attack tags orb mines on the target which may be detonated by any Catalyzer (intended for teamwork where one knight tags the target and the other detonates); Catalyzer line.

Antigua: six shot clip, high bullet speed, charge fires several bullets before a large bullet (when upgraded to 5* the large bullet changes to an owl) which pushes enemies away; Antigua line.

______________Seperation line______________

Bomb: 5

Standard: normal blast range, damages targets within the area of effect; Blast and Spine Cone lines, Firecracker, Cold Snap, Static Flash.

Vaporizer: normal blast range, damages in a very small area around the epicenter, leaves a status inflicting mist in the blast range; Fiery Vaporizer, Freezing Vaporizer, Toxic Vaporizer, Static Capacitor, Haze Bomb lines.

Crystal: incredibly small blast range, fires projectiles in eight directions (north, northwest, west, southwest, south, southeast, east, northeast) a long distance; Crystal line.

Suction: small blast range, creates a suction vortex after the initial explosion (enemies take a small amount of damage when affected by the suction) which explodes and releases the enemies close to the epicenter; Graviton Charge and Electron Charge lines.

Dark Reprisal/Seerus bomb: small blast range, creates four orbs which circle around the epicenter (the initial explosion damages the epicenter) in two orbitals; Dark Reprisal, Dark Reprisal Mk II, Dark Retribution.

______________Seperation line______________
Final Score

Gun: 7
Sword: 6
Bomb: 5

______________Seperation line______________

I have nothing against more variety with swords but in this thread we have four types of what may be a fourth weapon type or sub-culture of swords as melee weapons.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:08
#10
Kentard's picture
Kentard
Still counts as 'swords'.

However silly that may be, I suppose.
But we digress; we can discuss that in his thread; my main gripe with that is that you could essentially make a sword model for something that fulfills virtually the same function as swords, while my creative side tells me that fisticuffs are the way to go. Hurrah.

As for your 'scoring', I don't see how that really helps.
Ultimately we can just come up with new mechanics for every single one of the weapon types anyway, though you do have to concede that it is far easier to come up with new mechanics for guns and swords than bombs.

Anyway, I believe the verdict for this thread is simple; no shadow/elemental flourishes; in fact, no more flourishes if possible.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:25
#11
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
But I want to punch faces

The point of keeping score is to identify how many different weapon mechanics exist for each weapon type. I agree to not adding shadow or element rapiers for the same reason all standard swords are at least partial normal damage. For swords we can use medieval weaponry as melee references, guns modern firearms. Bombs are more difficult to branch due to their function, though possible.

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