Spiral Knights - Buffing freeze against knights

Buffing freeze against knights

15 replies [Last post]

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 04:20

Metagenic

I noticed that the freeze status, when used against the player, most of the time is nothing more than a minor nuisance. Here's my thoughts: make it so that you can only unfreeze prematurely if you're willing to take damage. As of now, you can shield up when you're frozen, and the subsequent attack damages the shield and breaks the freeze at the same time. I think it should be changed so that the freeze only breaks when the knight is unprotected. If you shield, your shield takes damage but you don't unfreeze. The idea here is that the energy bubble generated by the shield also prevents the ice block from being broken. Any opinions?

Alternate suggestion: make knights take thaw damage. After all, monsters do.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 08:46

Sacrontine

Freeze is definitely not the worst status, but I'd rank it higher than stun and poison. You should worry about those first.

I got killed yesterday by freeze devilites. They hit you once, freeze you, break your shield in seconds by pelting snowballs, and then you're screwed.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:37

Metagenic

hmm

Imo freeze is easier to handle than poison. Getting poisoned can really screw you over if you're on low health; you'll do significantly less damage, take more, and be unable to heal. Freeze just holds you in place for a few seconds--the only potent freeze enemies are fiends (yes you got killed by freeze devilites, but I doubt other freeze enemies are gonna do much to you).

Idk about stun though. It's not even a theme status, so let's leave that off to the side for a while.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:44

Tapproot

...

If freeze is so useless, why is shivermist buster brought almost every time into FSC? If freeze is useless, tell me why can a stumps in t3 kill me by hitting me at the same time? WHY DO YOU THINK FREEZE IS USELESS???????????????????????????????????????????????

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:59

Metagenic

@Zasher

To clarify, freeze is useless when monsters are using it against players.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 06:12

Extribble

@Zasher: For some reason I

@Zasher: For some reason I don't see how that post was helpful...

@Meta: I'd go with the alternate suggestion. There's clearly a trigger somewhere that allows your knight to move when thawed, just add a little damage to it. Simpler to add (or so I'd think), and it falls in line with how freeze affects monsters.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:19

Dukeplatypus

The problem with this is that

The problem with this is that the things that froze you refreeze when you get hit and you still wont be able to move.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:56

Juances

Make it so you get a movement debuff for 3-5 extra seconds independent of the orignal effect (this means even if an ally saves you, you'll still be slowed).
Sounds fitting. (i totally didnt get the idea from skyrim ice spells)

I would nerf ASI too, but that would be too similar to stun.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 15:46

Toxicyoccm

Keep freeze as is

Tier 3, Sinister Skelly set, broken shield, solo, Freeze plate.

The worst deaths are the ones you can do nothing to prevent.

If anything I'd support movement decrease after being free, as Juances leads to.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 16:28

Espeonage

Freeze in its current state

What is Freeze?
Between Fire, Shock and Freeze,
- Fire is flat DoT damage
- Shock is minor damage and minor movement inhibition
- Freeze is movement inhibition

Fire and Freeze are two ends of a spectrum, and Shock is a sort of middleground.
It's the status that holds you down, but not particularly life-threatening; to hit your health, it sets you up for additional attacks.

Observing what it may currently 'lack':

- Thaw damage (old iteration)
Freeze resist basically becomes a liability.

- Damage by premature thawing (old iteration)
Party members may thaw you, causing you to take damage.

- Attacks only have a chance of applying Freeze
However, if it always refroze you, you're stunlocked.
___

After reviewing these aspects, Metagenic's suggestion seems like a step in the right direction.
One thing to note is that guarding plays an even larger role when being frozen, so I believe any non-rework suggestions should remain fair to the shield.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 17:51

#10

Arctifice

Anyone here ever lag into a freeze grate while soloing?

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 05:16

#11

Metagenic

@Arctifice

Freeze grates aren't monsters.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 06:36

#12

Arctifice

Freeze still gets reapplied

Freeze still gets reapplied constantly, regardless of coming from a monster or grate.
Point still valid.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 07:33

#13

Hexzyle

@Arctifice

Nope. Freeze grates are simply evil. They reapply so fast because their damage tick is so fast. As soon as you lose invunerability, you get refrozen.
However, with a single strike, freeze monsters will break your freeze, regardless, even if you had your shield up or were invunerable.

Being struck by one monster and being frozen often demands that you raise your shield instantly. This lack of mobility will often allow another monster to close in quickly and strike at you again. However you have your shield up this time, your freeze gets broken, and you escape unharmed. (except for the first strike, which could have happened in any theme, and a scratch on your shield)

Status Grate and Whisp damage and status application is calculated differently from knight and monster status damage. Knights have a similar thing to freeze grates: the Shivermist buster. It will constantly reapply freeze as soon as the monster unfreezes. (but sacrifices damage, unlike grates, but like whisps) The Hail Driver and Iceburst brandish are comparable to freeze monsters: any attack from those weapons, even if it would be one that would normally apply freeze, will break freeze.
Simply put: A single strike cannot break and reapply freeze. Haze does not abide by this rule.

In short: Freeze grates are horrendous (aka perfect the way they are) but Freeze monsters are pathetic (in need of buffing).

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:00

#14

Thimol

-----

Along with Layoafers, as someone mentioned, freeze-themed Candlestick Keeps can be horrendous if you don't have good freeze resist. Just a thought.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:33

#15

Hexzyle

@Sylvanius

I can understand that. The freeze attacks are far apart (due to kat's love of flying all over the place) and that gives you more time to be chomped. Not to mention those bullets hurt like hell.

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Buffing freeze against knights