Spiral Knights - Dashtravaganza: More slow weapons with dash mechanics

Dashtravaganza: More slow weapons with dash mechanics

13 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 15:41

Zyborg

Here are a couple ideas for weapon lines with dashes (or charges) similar to the Rocket Hammer's dash. Coincidentally, they're both based on monsters. One of them (the Lichen Lance line) is a serious suggestion, while the other (the Trojan Sword line) is here mostly because I think it would be awesome to have a Trojan's moveset.

EDIT: I changed a few things about the Lichen Lance line weapons in response to feedback received on them. I might edit the Trojan Sword line later, but I like every alteration to it that was suggested as of this edit.

EDIT 2: I finally got around to editing the Trojan Sword line. I split it into two possibilities, one inspired more by Fehzor's feedback and the other inspired more by Luguiru's.

Lichen Lance (3*)
Appearance: It looks like a lichen that has been stretched vertically.
Flavor Text: Most knights don't know why this weapon is called a lance, since it's not very lance-like. No one has ever bothered to call it anything else, though.

Weapon Type: Two-strike sword
Damage Type: Piercing
Status Effect: None
First Strike: A forward thrust with the lance. It has no horizontal range, but great vertical range.
Second Strike: A dashing forward thrust with the lance. This strike goes as far (or maybe farther) than the Rocket Hammer, but the knight never turns around during it.
Charge Attack: The knight sticks the lance into the ground, causing a shockwave around the knight.

Lichen Colancey (4*)
Appearance: It looks like a lichen colony that has been stretched vertically. It has lichen colony barbs on top.
Flavor Text: This spear is formed when a bunch of Lichen Lances are left in storage together. How this happens is unknown, since none of the Lichen Lances are alive.

Giant Lichen Colancey (5*)
Appearance: It looks like a giant lichen colony that has been stretched vertically. It has giant lichen colony horns on top.
Flavor Text: It takes a lot of Lichen Lances to make this spear. The result is certainly worth it, however.

Toxilanco (5*)
Appearance: It looks like a toxilargo that has been stretched vertically. It has giant toxilargo horns on top.
Flavor Text: Like its living counterpart, the Toxilanco constantly spews poison gas. Knights that don't like the smell of whatever it is toxilargos smell like should wear a gas mask when wielding this weapon.

Weapon Type: Two-strike sword
Damage Type: Piercing
Status Effect: Poison
First Strike: A forward thrust with the lance. It has no horizontal range, but great vertical range.
Second Strike: A dashing forward thrust with the lance. This strike goes as far (or maybe farther) than the Rocket Hammer, but the knight never turns around during it.
Charge Attack: The knight sticks the lance into the ground, causing thorns to come out of the ground around the knight. This is similar to a toxilargo's thorn roots attack.

Oilancer Baron (5*)
Appearance: It looks like an oiler that has been stretched vertically. It has giant T3 oiler horns on top, and is on fire.
Flavor Text: Knights who hold this spear feel a burning sensation in their hand, as well as a burning desire to invest in drilling equipment. The former can be explained by the fact that they're holding something on fire.

Weapon Type: Two-strike sword
Damage Type: Piercing
Status Effect: Fire
First Strike: A forward thrust with the lance. It has no horizontal range, but great vertical range.
Second Strike: A dashing forward thrust with the lance. This strike goes as far (or maybe farther) than the Rocket Hammer, but the knight never turns around during it.
Charge Attack: The knight does a powerful forward thrust with the lance, going through any enemies (other than shielded or immune enemies) in his or her path. During the thrust, the knight drops a line of oil along the path of the thrust. Once the thrust is finished, the oil catches on fire and inflicts Fire on any enemy that touches it. The oil disappears soon after it catches on fire.
_____________________________________________________

The suggestions for the Trojan Sword line will be different. As all three swords in this line are exactly the same except for damage, flavor text, and color for each suggestion, I will have a single profile for each line.

Trojan Sword Line (Possibility One)
Names: Trojan Sword (3*), Dark Trojan Sword (4*), Trojan Knightmare Sword (5*)
Appearance: The Trojan Sword looks like a T1 trojan's sword, the Dark Trojan Sword looks like a T2 trojan's sword, and the Trojan Knightmare Sword looks like a T3 trojan's sword. All of them are smaller than actual trojan swords, being about the same size as a sword from the Troika line.

Weapon Type: Two-strike sword
Damage Type: Normal/Shadow
Status Effect: Stun (on second strike), Shock (on charge attack)
First Strike: A charge attack similar to the one trojans use. It has a slow startup and cannot be shield cancelled. The knight cannot change direction during the dash, and recovers slowly if he or she doesn't use the second strike afterward.
Second Strike: A sword slam similar to the ones trojans use. It has a fairly slow startup and slow recovery. It cannot be shield cancelled, but has a fair chance of causing moderate stun.
Charge Attack: An attack similar to the attack buff that trojans use. It deals great knockback and has a fair chance of causing moderate shock. It deals very little (if any) damage, however, and it doesn't increase the knight's attack power.
Player Stat Modifications: Movement speed decrease medium and attack speed decrease medium

Trojan Sword Line (Possibility Two)
Names: Trojan Sword (3*), Dark Trojan Sword (4*), Trojan Knightmare Sword (5*)
Appearance: The Trojan Sword looks like a T1 trojan's sword, the Dark Trojan Sword looks like a T2 trojan's sword, and the Trojan Knightmare Sword looks like a T3 trojan's sword. All of them are smaller than actual trojan swords, being about the same size as a sword from the Troika line.

Weapon Type: One-strike sword
Damage Type: Normal/Shadow
Status Effect: Stun (on normal attack)
Normal Attack: A sword slam similar to the ones trojans use. It has a fairly slow startup and slow recovery. It cannot be shield cancelled, but has a fair chance of causing moderate stun.
Charge Attack: A charge attack similar to the one trojans use. It has a slow startup and cannot be shield cancelled. The knight cannot change direction during the dash, and recovers slowly if he or she doesn't use the second strike afterward.
Player Stat Modifications: Movement speed decrease medium and attack speed decrease medium

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:04

Schattentag

Uh...

Trojan Swords: Shield-cancel to win the game.

Lichen Lances: I don't know if they'd be able to restrict your turning before using your second strike. Also "Colancy" just doesn't look...correct to me. I feel like "Colancey" might be better, but it still seems weird.

Sorry for the shallow response, but I should be doing homework right now. >_>

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:14

Luguiru

I got this

The Trojan sword does not need analysis to prove it is overpowered. The first swing alone makes it overpowered, the rest only makes it even more overpowered.

Lichens are those yellow, blob things; explain how they become a lance and why Wolver teeth are involved.

Rapier swords are supposed to be the "trade you general hit range for vertical stabbing" mechanic.

Have you used the Flourish charge attack? That is how a lance works; dash forward while pushing enemies with you and inflicting damage. There is no stabbing into the ground as that would nullify using the weapon; you are stuck trying to get it out of the ground. I know not all weapon mechanics are realistic or logical, but at least make it somewhat balanced based on how the weapon you are basing it on works; rapiers have swift swings, heavy swords have a wide and fairly far swing range, et cetera. Flourish line is essentially a lance.

Spin attack with a lance. No. It also drops oil and lights it around you, but not on you? No. Fang of Vog. Look it up.

Flourish line charge attack. That is all.

Before any user tries to create a weapon suggestion they should already have experience or at least competency in all weapon mechanics and how they are balanced. None of this "you get to attack like Trojans derp" nonsense.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:31

Bisento

I really like the lance ideas. Very nice blend of the jelly theme with the charge attack. As for the Oilancer Baron I think the second suggested charge makes more sense for a lance. Though the wolver teeth is a bit out of place, let it be a plain jelly and have the charge just be a shockwave from the lance being thrust into the ground. Then the upgrades can have spikes.

However I do agree with Schattentag and Luguiru on the Trojan sword line. I also wonder if the split status is something that can easily be done or not.

I don't see why we couldn't be allowed to change our direction in between swings/lunges for the lances. Every other weapon can do it including the slow swords, so should the lances.

Just cause we have the speedy flourish line with a lunging charge shouldn't mean we don't think of a slow-hit piercing weapon with some similar mechanics that still manages to be different. Any piercing weapon is going to be stabby-esque anyway.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:42

Juances

The sword should just be a F2P alternative of the warmaster hammer with normal damage.
It smashes on charge and has a small sprint like Trojans. Fits well enough and will make some people happy.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:48

Bisento

There is an idea like that already that was floating around the front page about a week or so ago. Search under "thwack hammer"

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 16:57

Juances

Ok, a shadow version of that thing. No new special animations required.

And the multiple status thing can be achieved in some way, might be limited, but its' something: Sealed Sword.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 18:35

Zyborg

General Responses: I must

General Responses:
I must have been unclear on the "forward only" thing. When I said that the dashing thrust only goes forward, I just mean that the knight wouldn't turn around at any point during the thrust (like they would with the Rocket Hammer's dash). You'd still be able to change the direction of the thrust mid-combo.

For the Lichen Lance line's charge attacks (or most of them, anyway), I was thinking about having the knight just slam the lance into the ground (like a Troika-line charge attack) instead of stabbing it into the ground. This was mostly so OOO wouldn't have to make a whole new animation for that attack.

If it would be better, the Lichen Lance line's forward dash and second strike could be separated into two different clicks. I didn't have have them like this originally because I was afraid it would make the lances too similar to the Rocket Hammer.

Schattentag:
Duly noted with the names. It was meant to be a portmanteau of "colony" and "lance", but I can see how it could be weird. Now that I think about it, it reminds me of colons.

Bisento:
The wolver teeth were added to the Lichen Lance because I couldn't think of a good charge attack for it otherwise. I like your idea better, though.

As for the Oilancer Baron's charge attack, I had two possibilities because I wasn't sure if the second one was too far removed from the other charge attacks in the line. The spin attack version was intended to be like the charge attack for the other weapons in the Lichen Lance line, except with oil instead of thorns. The forward charge version is sounding better to me, though, since the spin attack is starting to sound too similar to other charge attacks.

Juances:
I would say that your idea sounds like a shadow Troika with a dash, but the Rocket Hammer is an elemental Troika with a dash and two smashes for its charge attack. If an actual trojan sword is too OP (and it probably is, given all of the responses against it), that would be a suitable replacement.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 19:26

Fehzor

Trojan sword... I'd like to

Trojan sword... I'd like to see this come from the calibur line... perhaps as a side-grade type thing from the 3*. And have it cost a large amount of dark shards, some shadow steel, 200 scrap metal and maybe some swordstones. Oh, and a good 10 trojan horseshoes.

To where you'd go like this to make it-

ascended calibur(3*)>Trojan sword(4*)>Trojan sword(5*)

And then to balance it, have it-

First strike: Dash (deals shadow damage, cannot be shield cancel+slow recovery should you not attack, cannot turn during charge)
Second strike: Sudaruska's smash attack (lots of shadow damage; slow recovery+no shield canceling)
Charge: Attack up stomp with shock low;
Movement speed slow down: High
Attack speed slow down: Med
Charge time increase: low

Note that the passives would apply to all weapons. Sword should appear around the same size of the trojans.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 20:07

Luguiru

Consistency

Kentard has a lance/spear weapon in his thread somewhere.

My problem with the lance in this thread is how it mimics Flourish line too closely, particularly the charge attack.

The Trojan sword needs significant balancing against the damage and mechanic abilities. Instead of having two hits for the basic attack, change it to be a one-hit combo to mimic the Trojan attack without the charge; the charge attack can have the rush-overhead mechanic with similar dash distance as the rocket hammers. No to the damage buff charge attack.

Trojan should be its own upgrade line branching from a new boss to introduce more new content to the game. There are several boss threads with sufficient content to squeeze this in as one of the rewards at 3*.

For the buffs and debuffs by Fehzor, those only affect the user while the weapon is active; see UVs. The movement decrease should be changed to -2 to balance the user does not have the permanent shield of Trojans, yes to the -2 attack speed, no to the charge buff.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 16:22

#10

Zyborg

The forward thrusts weren't

The forward thrusts weren't my first idea for the Lichen Lance line's normal attacks. I was originally going to have the lance grow thorns forward (possibly in a fan shape) on the first strike and either grow the thorns farther or be thrust forward by the knight on the second strike. Each strike would count as one attack, so the thorns wouldn't hit bigger enemies multiple times. The thorns would be around the same size or shorter than the Flourish. I didn't use these attacks because I thought the forward thrusts and dashes fit the lichen theme better. The thorn-growing attacks might help make it more distinct from the Flourish lines, though.

The only Lichen Lance that has a charge attack similar to the Flourish's is the Oilancer Baron. The rest summon thorns (or a shockwave) around the user. You might be able to argue that those charges are similar to the BTB's, but they hit all around the user instead of just in front. EDIT: Maybe you're saying that the Lichen Lance line's normal attacks are too similar to the Flourish's normal and charged attacks. Even though there are plenty of weapon lines with the same normal attacks but different charge attacks, there's something to be said for that.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 13:53

#11

Tsubasa-No-Me

/rage

"Shield cancel to win."

Welcome to the wonderful world of Flourishes.

/ragefor3hours

_____

I'd like to use the Suda with a dash... >:3

New Italics Pending.
~Tsu

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 15:18

#12

Schattentag

@Tsu

This is a completely different level from Flourishes. The description of the Trojan Swords specifies that the first attack in the combo will be a dash. If you shield-cancel, you'll practically fly through levels.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 15:21

#13

Tsubasa-No-Me

My point was:

We already have a cheap, Shield cancel = win sword... The flourish...

I understand about flying through levels... I still hold to my above statement.

New Italics Pending.
~Tsu