Spiral Knights - STRONG status for 5* alchemer charge

STRONG status for 5* alchemer charge

13 replies [Last post]

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 10:48

Tenkii

I think the Status Alchemers (firo/magma, cryo/hail, volt/storm) should be able to cause STRONG effects on their 5* upgrades.

For example:

Magma Driver:
"Spitting gobs of molten death at an alarming rate, this sublime sidearm is not recommended for use around (or on) anyone (or anything) you happen to care deeply about."
Effect: Good chance of causing MODERATE fire
- the same as the 2* version.

This goes for all the other status alchemers.
This means that the effects' well, effect diminishes over the upgrades.

There are two ways of approaching the balance - the 2* and 3* either have less of a chance or causes MINOR status, or 5* gets bumped up to STRONG.

Why do I suggest bumping up the 5* to STRONG? Because
Seiran flexes. I love being STRONG!

I think it's a little weird that the brandish sword lines get to have STRONG level effects, but the status alchemer lines (being pure elemental) only have MODERATE. It's not like alchemers are in need of nerfs, and swords have enough of a lead already.

REVISION/addition:
- Make it so the main charge hit (the large ball) causes STRONG, and regular shots cause MODERATE.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 10:56

Hexzyle

-1

Sorry, I disagree. The Driver's charge attack can strike around 6 clustered enemies, making it on par with the 5* haze bomb's status capabilities. Not to mention it can be shot from a distance and deals decent damage. However I have yet to use a Volt and a Magma Driver, so I can't say for those two.

Brandishes have a strong status effect because you have to get right up in the enemies face to use them, and they're swords so naturally they deal more damage. Guns are not as powerful because they are to be kited with.

The 2* versions are fine, but maybe the 3* or 4* could do with a buff.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 12:11

Tenkii

But the brandishes have the triple ranged blast. That's not exactly "right up in the enemy's face". They also have the added bonus of being able to penetrate through enemies, whereas the bullets from charge only really tend to hit 2-4 enemies.

As much as I'd love to pull this into a Lockdown PVP discussion (where brandish charges are used as a ranged pre-emptive attack and people can use UV's to get immunity from moderate status), I'll try to avoid it -

I'm not necessarily talking about buffing the strength of the raw damage itself since:
- that'd be treading into the Nova Driver's territory
- the fact that guns are very weak until 4* is a different topic altogether
- all status alchemers have the same raw damage, I believe. My magma and volt drivers do the same amount in FSC, status aside.

I'm not talking about buffing the chance of effect, but the strength of the effect.
Like, how about

2* : Minor status
3*-4*: Moderate status
5* : Strong status

At the very least, Strong status will help bridge the apparent gap between swords and guns a bit, and give them a bit more utility (especially as a sidearm).

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:27

Dukeplatypus

As much as I'd love this,

As much as I'd love this, this has to get a -1 from me. People hate me as it is in LD for using Storm Driver and sometimes Magma. If you give Magma STRONG, it'd just ruin people's days. Not to mention just sitting there for 10 seconds of freeze to pass as a sitting duck.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:34

Iapnez

I have an idea. Make the Tier

I have an idea. Make the Tier 2 drivers have a chance for minor status, but moderate on the charge.
Then on the Tier 3 drivers make it a chance for moderate, but strong on the charge.

Good alternative? Yes? No?

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:46

Dukeplatypus

Nah, if you land a charge on

Nah, if you land a charge on a striker you'll pretty much OHKO them outright with Nova or Umbra and the status will kill with the rest if they survive at all. Worst case is they'll be severely damaged.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 16:00

Skold-The-Drac

Welcome to gunning

If you want strong status on guns. Limit the chance to status enemies on the charge. Simple as that.
/end my contribution

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 16:18

Tenkii

on charge

Mm.. modifying it so charge causes STRONG isn't a bad idea.

It's weird enough that some tooltips only show the status for weapons whose charge attacks deal the status (aka, the brandish lines), and not for others (ex: Sudaruska has no effect on its tooltip, but its charge causes stun).

Also, Dukeplatypus:
As much as I'd love this, this has to get a -1 from me. People hate me as it is in LD for using Storm Driver and sometimes Magma. If you give Magma STRONG, it'd just ruin people's days. Not to mention just sitting there for 10 seconds of freeze to pass as a sitting duck.

Last I did it, Nova/Umbra charge didn't reliably OHKO moving targets. Maybe I should give it another shot.
Also, they don't cause status, so they're not really part of the consideration in this thread.
Also, does this complaint somehow not stand with the Brandish lines, whose raw damage is FAR stronger than the alchemers AND cause Strong effect?

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 17:27

Dukeplatypus

Sorry, probably should have

Sorry, probably should have explained myself better. I always run max gun damage in LD. I was referring to the nice little bonus where if you shoot a charge into a dashing target, the bounces all ricochet inside the target for ridiculous damage (not terribly reliable and rather situational, but if you can time it well it's pretty serious). By "with the rest" I meant the other 3 status drivers.

But if we're discussing making the charge cause STRONG, would that affect only the initial shot or all the other shots that branch off? If its all the smaller shots too, it might be a tad OP.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 17:46

Tenkii

the revision

Not sure if you caught it earlier, but if the charge, I mean just the large/initial shot :D

The one thing I'm not too sure about is if STRONG can get overridden by weaker status. I kind of doubt it, but if it doesn't, then that makes this all the better IMO.

---

I have had an ultracrit like you described just once before (no damage bonuses, Storm driver). It was absolutely satisfying since the guy had ran straight out of his gate, but he got shocked and dashed back in to heal LOL.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 19:37

#10

Hexzyle

"But the brandishes have the

"But the brandishes have the triple ranged blast. That's not exactly "right up in the enemy's face". They also have the added bonus of being able to penetrate through enemies, whereas the bullets from charge only really tend to hit 2-4 enemies

An alchemer charge has about 160% of the range of a brandish charge, 180% or eve 200% if you use wall richochets.

I'm trying to think of whether the alchemer charge needs a buff. Without a buff it's kind of underpowered, but if it got a buff, people like me who have a total Gun CTR max would pwn with the charge attack, not sure if that's ok or not.

As I said, I've yet to try the Magma or Storm altogether, and I'll have to test my Hail in PvE before I can give a fully validated opinion on how the alchemers could be made better.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 19:49

#11

Arctifice

I own both a Storm and Magma,

I own both a Storm and Magma, and the charges are already fine for spreading status.
Only possible improvement I could think of is buffing the chance of status, feels kinda underwhelming tagging enemies with three or four consecutive shots and not watching them erupt into flames.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 21:44

#12

Skold-The-Drac

Breaking my own promise.

Ok... +1 this idea.... and thank arctifice for it.

In place of going the way of the sword lines.... why not increase the chance of guns causing status? Mostly on the charge attack though. Reason for asking this is I don't want to see haze bombing go (since that's about all we bombers have in our arsenal that nobody whines about, when in mixed company aka bombers + any other class)

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 01:31

#13

Regalya

That "Moderate" proc on magma

That "Moderate" proc on magma takes out 50% to 60% percent of non fire affined monsters hp over 8 sec tho..
Alchemers terrible at low levels if this change come to be then weapons damage need to be normalized to save it from totally gimpness or newbies will not be happy.

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STRONG status for 5* alchemer charge