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New Twin-Swords : 5* Skygazer, Eclipse, and the Aurora

19 replies [Last post]
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 19:05
Gum-Me's picture
Gum-Me

Hello everyone. My idea is to have a sword that has a split, kinda like the Divine Avenger and the Gran Faust. This one splits at the 5* form, not the second to last like the other swords I mentioned.

The Skygazer (5*) is an pure elemental sword that deals fire when charged. It would mainly be a heavy (slow) sword, but it looks fast as you swing it. The charge attack is +50% of the regular attack plus, as the special effect, it creates a circle around you at the radius of where the the end of the sword lands. That "circle" around you is made out of random comets that hit the ground. Each comet deals the same damage as the uncharged attack. The attack power would be, on the attack power bar, starting at 9/10, ending at 9.9/10. The sword knocks back enemies hit by the sword itself (not the comets) (both charged and uncharged) The style is a fire colored glow with a fire-colored comet-like shape at the end of the sword.

The Eclipse (5*) is an pure normal sword that deals curse when charged, but like the Gran Faust, it also deals curse back. It would mainly be a heavy (slow) sword, but it looks fast as you swing it. The charge attack is +50% of the regular attack plus, as the special effect, it creates a circle around you at the radius of where the the end of the sword lands. That "circle" around you is made out of random comets that hit the ground. Each comet deals the same damage as the uncharged attack. The attack power would be, on the attack power bar, starting at 9/10, ending at 9.9/10. The sword knocks back enemies hit by the sword itself (not the comets) (both charged and uncharged) The style is a shadow colored glow with a purple comet-like shape at the end of the sword.

The Aurora (5*) is an pure piercing sword that deals freeze when charged. It would mainly be a heavy (slow) sword, but it looks fast as you swing it. The charge attack is +50% of the regular attack plus, as the special effect, it creates a circle around you at the radius of where the the end of the sword lands. That "circle" around you is made out of random comets that hit the ground. Each comet deals the same damage as the uncharged attack. The attack power would be, on the attack power bar, starting at 9/10, ending at 9.7/10. The sword knocks back enemies hit by the sword itself and the comets (both charged and uncharged). The style is a ice colored glow with a light blue comet-like shape at the end of the sword.

All the previous versions (Astroid [2/10-3/10][2*], Meteor Shower [3/10-4/10][3*], then Falling Star [5/10-7/10][4*][Randomly Ice OR Fire]) are Normal damage dealing swords and all have the same type of charge attack (comets gradually getting bigger).

Please consider, thank you. :)

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:20
#1
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Slowbro

I assume these three share the heavy sword mechanic as Sealed and Troika series already do. Creating an upgrade line for each may be done through an existing sword with a similar/same mechanic (Sealed/Troika in this case) or originate from its own alchemy path.

Explain what it means for it to have a heavy sword mechanic but appear to be fast. I want to know how that makes sense without actually being fast to begin with. For statuses on any weapon there must be rates given. Either research how this works or I will do it for you. Weapons require an independent variable to base further values upon based on the floor used, as damage is not consistent throughout the Clockworks. Weapons require balance the most out of all the types of equipment due to their complex nature.

Skygazer (5*):

Something is wrong here.
"My idea is to have a sword that has a split, kinda like the Divine Avenger and the Gran Faust."
"The Skygazer (5*) is an pure elemental sword"

Its charge attack according to your post delivers comets upon charge damaging in the area of a normal swing; this swing happens to be a radius of two from the user but this charge effects a full circle radius. The charge also deals 150% damage of the normal swings which does not have a defined value. The attack power bar is not an additive value; three bars of two different damage values does not equal six bars of a single damage value against a neutral target. You also state that the damage value is 9~9.9 bars of element making it superior to Troika in every way and offering move area of effect than the Divine Avenger charge with more potential damage. This one is too unbalanced to be allowed to live.

Eclipse (5*)

Stop recycling the same details. The point of having different things is for them to be different. Am I rereading Skygazer or is this the exact same mechanic but with curse added? No. I am not going to analyze the entire thing because the less overpowered version was already far overpowered.

Aurora (5*)
I give up on you. As a forum user you are dead to me.

I procrastinated creating this response only to find out it was horrible to begin with. How disappointing.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:35
#2
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
Hey

Cut some slack. I did the same cut and paste thing with the mechanics of my heavy weapon line which you liked enough to throw in your thread.

As for Gum-Me: OP. All of them. Although I am trying to understand your "looks fast but it slow" thing you got going on. Only thing I can think of is that it is sorta like a cutter with the ghost blade but with your weapon only the ghost swing would cause damage. You need some clarification there bud.

Remember balance. K bye :P

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:39
#3
Gum-Me's picture
Gum-Me
Ok then, thank you for the "positive" and constructive feedback.

Well, then, how would you think this could be less overpowered?

PS: These are all of the same branch of sword, so they should be around the same type of sword with the around the same effects. I copied, pasted and edited for a reason. Sorry, but deal with it.

PPS: "Fast looking, but slow" I mean it is a slow weapon, as usual, like all large weapons, kinda like the troika, but if has a fast swing. (another way to think about it is that it takes a while to "load" or move out from swinging position, but the swing is fast, since it was supposed to be like a comet [the original names were the "comitpro" (elemental sword, fire dealing) and the "comitcon"(normal sword, cursing and curseback){the Aurora was not an original sword, but a "new brainstorm idea}]).

PPPS: Then i would put the 5* vesion of the first two swords as strong as the 5* version of the troika, no biggie...

PPPPS: Recall that the cursing sword CURSES YOU BACK!!!

PPPPPS: 5* swords deal strong effects, 4* sword deals low status effects. Sorry that was not clear at all.

Thank you again though, please reply. More ps's might come with the more errors i find and more errors you find. :)

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 10:51
#4
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
Eh...

Unless you significantly lower the damage output on these things, they will continue to be overpowered remakes of DA/GF.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:19
#5
Gum-Me's picture
Gum-Me
Like how?!?!?!

If i significantly lower the damage output, what is the point of getting the 5* sword! Plus, 5* swords are, in all your terms, overpowered, if all the official spiral knights swords were judged by your criteria, so you might as well complain to OOO for making those swords (and all weapons in general) too overpowered. What if I said I put in a "new" material that can only be found in the shadow realm, a 5*material that might be called "Comet Dust" (i did not really think through the name though long enough, so if you get a better comet-like name, put it here). So STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT BEING OVERPOWERED!!! It is not worth it if (maybe) you can only obtain the materials of the sword though the shadow realm.

PPPPPPS: Actually, the power of the charged sword would be (using your example of 3) 4.5 (adding 50%, NOT 100%). DO THE MATH, IT IS ACTUALLY QUITE SIMPLE!!!!

PPPPPPPS: I see in the forums that there are just random haters in the forums, especially in the announcements (updates). So now i am inferring that most of these people are just haters, and i am inferring that all you are just a part of them (the haters, if that was not clear). The updates are mostly good, useful updates, but the people that look at those updates don't appreciate what OOO does for the long run. Sheesh. So if you are only on this thread to hate on my idea, dont say anything at all. It is getting annoying and i hate it. If you truly think that way of my idea, improve it.... not hate on it. Post a comment that gives "detailed" info on the edited swords. (AKA CONSTRUCTIVE feedback).

Thank you

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:31
#6
Softhead's picture
Softhead
Oh god.

He doesn't understand the mechanics......

And he is becoming "Dougknight2.0"...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:37
#7
Gum-Me's picture
Gum-Me
...

What did i just say... I want constructive feedback! Anyway, i also saw that the Jalovec, Furious Flamerge, the Suduruska, the Barbarous Thornblade and The Fearless Rigadoon do the same. Sheesh. Anyway, i will not put the "custom" charge attack then, if it is so "unmechanical".

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 13:21
#8
Softhead's picture
Softhead
They did.

you said they hated on you, like haters.....

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 13:47
#9
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
Simple math, eh?

150% damage + 100% per comet thing

If more than one comet hits, you will have dealt at least 350% of a regular attack's damage.

Here, it looks like the first hit of a Sudaruska charge attack does exactly 100% of the first regular hit's damage, the second does ~177%. There are only two hits, totaling 277% of the first regular hit's damage.

Well what if only one comet hits? You'll have dealt 250% of a regular attack's damage, so what's the problem now? It's weaker than a Sudaruska, so it's okay, right? Wrong - the circular effect is incredibly more versatile than the linear one from the Troika lines. This, combined with even a possibility of more than one comet hitting, makes the weapons overpowered.

Oh, what's that? You're removing the charge mechanic? In that case, what makes these swords viable as their own line? DA/GF will undeniably be superior to them just by the fact that they have versatility through split damage. Your pure damage swords now offer no new mechanics, and they're less usable than existing swords.

Oh, what's that? I'm a hater because I pursue balance in a game whose developers are constantly striving for balance themselves? Strange what people conclude with these days...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:25
#10
Gum-Me's picture
Gum-Me
...nvm

im done with this idea, and now that look back, i am sorry....sincerely... to all of you, but "Overpowered is what i don't get... how is it over powered?

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 05:02
#11
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
350%? Yo... You can't see

350%? Yo... You can't see that as more than it should ever be allowed?

You can't see that it would ruin PVP, and PVE, by leaving no challenge, let alone no chance against facing one?

This is a list of currently overpowered weapons... Go study them and see why your idea would ruin... Oh pretty much everything.

Final flourish
Fearless rigadoon
Gran faust
Divine avenger
Polaris
Dark retribution
Sun shards
Fang of vog
Blitz needle
Plague needle
And last but not least, the most deadly weapon...
Barbarous thorn blade.

Go forth and study these overpowered behemoths.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 05:52
#12
Infidelslayer's picture
Infidelslayer
@ Damienfoxy,Walls of TEXT!

DA and GF are overpowered? They may be faster than Sudaruska but their charge attack is definitely not that great.

Polaris is annoying but not OP since its slow bullets makes dodging possible

Dark Retribution used to be OP, not anymore.

Sun shards are harder to dodge but drake scale line can absorb its damage very easily.

Blitz and Plague charged attack is just like Sudaruska, powerful but risky. One bad move and you get to take a hit or two. In PvP the autogun is almost useless thanks to the fact that knights are immune to knock-down and its interruption effect is much weaker than the monsters.

Fang of Vog.....Chance of getting strong fire when using its charged attack. And getting a successful hit from it is not as easy as normal attack spamming from any weapon.

My only complaint about the Flourish/BTB is the first swing which is unbalanced. The range of a heavy sword and the ability to interrupt ,something no weapon of its class possess (Cutter series for example).

*vanishes in a blinding flash of light*

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 06:06
#13
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
Polaris is OP because once

Polaris is OP because once someone shoves you in a corner with it and shocks you so much you can't run, it's pretty much torture.

Dark retribution is op, because if you set out in charge reduction max for bombs, you can spam it so much it gets its original stength back.

Sun shards are, well a goofy bomb. It's obvious where to stand once it goes, since it's a multidirectional blast, and not a radial damage.

Gran and divine, all you need is asi max, and you can twirl till everyone's dead.

Fang of vog, has one shotted me many times... Even as a defender.

The brandishes, are OP in only ONE sense, that you actually aim that narrow charge line properly. If you land the hit, they die, if you don't, you die.

The needles maybe i'll remove them, they do have their own drawback.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:29
#14
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
What was that about overpowered

Rapier lines only need the attack interruption on the first swing lowered. We have discussed this already in another thread.

Divine Avenger is overpowered, Gran Faust has faster swings but an elongated charge time.

Polaris is overpowered. I took notes to balance but if I post them everyone would just whine because I want to cut it by 20% from its values before the gun buff.

Dark Retribution is nowhere near what it used to be. It has the same charge as it had before the nerf and deals significantly less damage per hit and the orbs move slower.

Shard bombs reward the user with sniping and multi-impact for vulnerability. When used against another player they can fairly easily avoid being nailed by it. Figure it out.

Fang of Vog is overpowered? Try Leviathan.

Blitz is overpowered, Plague is not.

Your list seems more about Lockdown whining than actual balance.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:53
#15
Infidelslayer's picture
Infidelslayer
hmmmm

@Luguiru

How is DA overpowered?

Just curious.....

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:56
#16
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Divine Avenger

Do you have one?

Have you tried the charge attack?

It is not original-Dark-Retribution overpowered, but it is noticeable.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 10:48
#17
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
Well yes it's lockdown based.

Well yes it's lockdown based. Thats the only reason you should ever whine about a weapons power.

Or am i dealing with elitist here??

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 11:00
#18
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Walruses

Elephant.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 12:58
#19
Infidelslayer's picture
Infidelslayer
@Luguiru

No I don't...thats why I asked :S.

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