Spiral Knights - Limit Arsenal Stations (Probably not what you think.)

Limit Arsenal Stations (Probably not what you think.)

52 replies [Last post]

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:31

Autofire

Before arsenal stations came around, you had to plan wisely. You couldn't just take the equipment that worked best for each level, because you didn't have that many slots. If you had construct in D25, and beasts in D26, you had to either take weapons that could hurt both, or a weapon for each. With stations, you can take elemental weapons one level, and then switch to pierce one depth down. If you didn't have the ability to chose any weapon you have in every level, it would increase the strength of normal weapons. I think it would contribute to the difficulty and the planing part of the game to make the chance of seeing an arsenal station random for most levels. An example table for chances could be:

100% chance in starting boss levels, terminals, and subtowns, regardless of tier.
95% chance in stratum 1
90% chance in stratum 2.
75% chance in stratum 3.
50% chance in stratum 4.
20% chance in stratum 5.
10% (5?) chance in stratum 6.

Maybe sometimes the station could be busted, or maybe it wouldn't even be around.

EDIT: some of you seem to wanna flame. Of course, these values I gave do not have to be followed exactly and could be something like this:

100% chance in starting boss levels, terminals, and subtowns, regardless of tier.
100% chance in stratum 1
95% chance in stratum 2.
80% chance in stratum 3.
65% chance in stratum 4.
50% chance in stratus 5 and 6.

Also, the only reason why the chance gets lower and lower is because it is supposed to get HARDER as you go deeper. Sure, you won't need it as much the higher you go, but you don't need to revive yourself as much the higher you go too, right? Why, it is only 2 energy to revive in T1, and 10 in T3, and you need to revive more often in T3 then you would have to in T1. The only reason that it is like this is to make it harder: you can't die as much, or you will quickly run out of energy.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:46

Schattentag

Oho...

I remember those days. Times were good. I like this idea, whether it be out of nostalgia or out of want for more challenge.

When I think about it objectively though, here's what I'm seeing. On one hand, players would be encouraged to play more strategically, which is probably good for the community. On the other, players might end up limiting their arsenals to weapons/armor that cover all bases, which results in less profit for OOO.

Just my thoughts.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:51

Prevailer

lets cripple 2 weapon slot

lets cripple 2 weapon slot users to provide them fake difficulty im sure theyll be content while everyone with 4 slots will just shrug it off

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:54

Softhead

Prev, you don't really know what you're talking about.

I use 2 trinks before the Arsneal Stations, And it was easy.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:57

Prevailer

so what? all this will lead

so what? all this will lead to is cookie cutter loadouts just to be safe that your weapons wont be useless

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:59

Softhead

And son,

That's how Normal Weapons where slightly useful back then.

Now most of them are rotting and gathering dust....

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:03

Prevailer

forcing people to use normal

forcing people to use normal damage weapons is exactly crippling, a fake difficulty

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:07

Schattentag

Cripple?

Pardon my rudeness, but what in the world makes you think this will be crippling to people who don't use weapon slots? I've never unlocked a single weapon or trinket slot, I do perfectly fine, and I've done perfectly fine since I started playing 10 months ago.

Like I said in my first post, it's true that some "players might end up limiting their arsenals to weapons/armor that cover all bases". However the keyword is might.

Because I started building my own loadout before Arsenal Stations existed, I use a Dragon Scale Helm and a Dread Skelly Suit to cover all defense types (and before Skelly was buffed, to balance out its fire weakness). I also often use Sudaruska and Umbra Driver as my two weapons. I'm going to generalize here, but I'm pretty sure my loadout is not a "cookie cutter" one, and I started on it before Arsenal Stations existed. Not everyone is going to make a "cookie cutter" loadout.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:09

Softhead

It's for non specialists. You don't have to.

They don't force you. Also, by looking up youtube vids, past experience, the wiki and the forum, try and memorise what enemies spawn in which level.

You can bring one of each wep type or bring a set which does gold on 4/6 and normal on 2/6.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:09

Softhead

It's for non specialists. You don't have to.

They don't force you. Also, by looking up youtube vids, past experience, the wiki and the forum, try and memorise what enemies spawn in which level.

You can bring one of each wep type or bring a set which does gold on 4/6 and normal on 2/6.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:15

#10

Prevailer

"Because I started building

"Because I started building my own loadout before Arsenal Stations existed, I use a Dragon Scale Helm and a Dread Skelly Suit to cover all defense types (and before Skelly was buffed, to balance out its fire weakness). "

what you did is what i exactly mentioned, you crippled your specialisation and instead went for crippled defenses for each type damage
why should i cripple my armor choices to be effective just because someone is a masochist?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:30

#11

Softhead

*Cough* bombers have Elemental Res only*Cough*

You could do any gate with one armour choice but you may have to rely on your shield and dodge more.

Bombers have one resist and they are doing fine, though some changes will be welcomed. And also, check my last post.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:53

#12

Prevailer

thats bombers, gunners and

thats bombers, gunners and swordies have all three types and there is multiple non-class sets that offer instead better status resistances
so what are you saying again? that there is a group already doing it and would never be affected by this anyway? okay, but everyone already knew that

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:53

#13

Softhead

?
Bomber sets only have 1 defence.

They have more risk compared to the other two.

That and some lacking in the diversial Weapon type department.

We have to adapt anyway.

Exanmple:

Toothpicking sklovers.

Then VT.

Then Get UV shock.

Then get Stagger storm.

Also, did you even pley back when they weren't introduced?

If people with 2 slots have survived previously, what doesn't say you can't?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:58

#14

Schattentag

Oh?

"what you did is what i exactly mentioned, you crippled your specialisation and instead went for crippled defenses for each type damage"

Wanna know exactly what you mentioned? Here:
"lets cripple 2 weapon slot users to provide them fake difficulty im sure theyll be content while everyone with 4 slots will just shrug it off"

"forcing people to use normal damage weapons is exactly crippling, a fake difficulty"

Nice try, buddy. Next time you decide to change your argument, do a better job of covering up.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:08

#15

Softhead

I may sound dumb, but I am feeling sluggish, and ill.

I don't really get the point...

EDIT: NVM. Guy first talks about Wepslots then goes on to Cookie cutter items and using balenced sets for everything.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:03

#16

Prevailer

@Lhii what does lockdown have

@Lhii
what does lockdown have to do with clockworks?
@Manalicious-Knight
which part of cookie cutter builds you dont understand? for reference see divine veil+skolver coat
and whoever said that no one is allowed to add anything more to their arguemnt?
cover up? what? waaaat

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:12

#17

Dream-Harmonics

Apart from the complete

Apart from the complete overuse of the word "cripple" and it's variants, I think this is a good idea.

As previously stated, many people have survived for many months without arsenal stations and as soon as someone suggests the chance for them not to appear in certain stratums, people forget that they're used to taking them for granted because now they actually have to plan a loadout for the next x Depths.

I survived before the Arsenal station update and I didn't really see the point of them when they were added, it was a nice touch, but it makes the game boring when you can switch out your gear every depth and breeze through the entire Clockworks from Haven to "The Core".

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:14

#18

Softhead

ADAPTABILITY!

Here's a more better example.

Guy goes to Dark city.

Has hard time with Devilites due to armour andweps.

Wants more efficient way.

Tries out several different weps and comes up with RSS/DBB and DTB.

Has a more easier time.

When hits, finds attacks devestating.

Gets Skelly or Divine+skolver.

Wants more dmg output to quicken fight.

Gets trinkets of choice.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:15

#19

Schattentag

@Prevailer

What part of "not a cookie cutter build and therefore not crippling anyone's options" don't you understand? If Divine/Skolver is your idea of a cookie cutter loadout, I don't fit it at all. Instead, I'm a prime example of how limiting arsenal stations will not necessarily limit people's options.

No one said you can't add to your argument, but this:
"what you did is what i exactly mentioned, you crippled your specialisation and instead went for crippled defenses for each type damage"

is a completely different argument from your original one:
"lets cripple 2 weapon slot users to provide them fake difficulty im sure theyll be content while everyone with 4 slots will just shrug it off"

Saying that I did exactly what you mentioned does not add to your argument, because in your original argument you mentioned nothing about armor. Rather than add strength to your argument, you've limited your credibility.

@Razorlined
Precisely.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:19

#20

Softhead

Yes,

@Razorlined

I thought the exact same thing, well posted it before.

Guy is skipping a lot of the points we have established...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:22

#21

Prevailer

"What part of "not a cookie

"What part of "not a cookie cutter build and therefore not crippling anyone's options" don't you understand? If Divine/Skolver is your idea of a cookie cutter loadout, I don't fit it at all. Instead, I'm a prime example of how limiting arsenal stations will not necessarily limit people's options."
uh, are you really going to deny that divine veil+skolver coat wasnt a cookie cutter loadout before the arsenal stations were added?

"Saying that I did exactly what you mentioned does not add to your argument, because in your original argument you mentioned nothing about armor. Rather than add strength to your argument, you've limited your credibility."
that just means you didnt understand my argument at all, crippling 2 weapon slot users is the worst thing here, with bad defences you can get by but you will be useless if you land in a slime level with just a flourish and a venom veiler; just because you were able to use them on the last level now thanks to a dumb rng you are foobared

breaking news at six: you can already play with whatever loadouts you want whatever you want

...doesnt mean it should be force on the whole community, im sure not everyone is into masochism

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:28

#22

Softhead

AGH!

THEN HOW WAS IT BEFORE THEY WERE ADDED?

ARE YOU EVEN READING!?

Look, How can you end up in a slime lv in both missions and arcvade?

There could be some, but the strata defines said lv so unless you were in a arena, this will rarely happen. Infact, I suggested bring weapons that deal 2/6 neutral and 4/6 Vunerable to enemies. In missions, they are always set. so you can go mission lobby and check the lvs.

In fact, this is just YOU. I'm currently a 2 slot player. And I was fine before and after the chest patches.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:28

#23

Softhead

AGH!

THEN HOW WAS IT BEFORE THEY WERE ADDED?

ARE YOU EVEN READING!?

Look, How can you end up in a slime lv in both missions and arcvade?

In fact, this is just YOU. I'm currently a 2 slot player. And I was fine before and after the chest patches.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:29

#24

Autofire

/sigh Can't you guys read an

/sigh

Can't you guys read an OP's post? It isn't like,"You will nevar evar see dem stations again as long as you stay in T3. Hark hark hark," I am saying I think they shouldn't be around in almost every level. I think there should be a chance of seeing them. Maybe that chance would increase when there are 2 extremely different depths back to back. IMO, the game has gotten easier since the stations. Now people think that the game would be too hard without them, when originally many thought the game would be too easy with them. For one thing, people would be encouraged to buy more weapon slots, thus increasing the money that OOO gets. (In theory)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:31

#25

Prevailer

"There could be some, but the

"There could be some, but the strata defines said lv so unless you were in a arena, this will rarely happen. Infact, I suggested bring weapons that deal 2/6 neutral and 4/6 Vunerable to enemies. In missions, they are always set. so you can go mission lobby and check the lvs."
breaking news at six, in clockwork tunnels enemies dealing the same damage are interchangable, same goes for arenas
also, lol missions, thats right, we have missions now, lets totally ignore arcade

"It isn't like,"You will nevar evar see dem stations again as long as you stay in T3. Hark hark hark,""
5% totally isnt that, totally

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:36

#26

Softhead

You're illiterate aren't you.....

I said BOTH. Check the map via arcade tab or gate map. You don't even understand the 4/6 and 2/6 idea.

Example,

Bring a Polaris and a Gran Faust.

Polaris does Strong against Constructs and Undead, Neutral to Fiends and Jellies and weak to Gremlins and Beasts.

Gran Faust does strong against Grems and Jellies. Neutral to Beasts and constructs and Weak to Fiends and Undead.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:39

#27

Softhead

News at six,

Prevailler apparantly can't comprehend simple ideas.

It's a low amount and as it goes smaller, it gets you to think about what weps are vital during the journey rather than keep switching and reling on something.

Again, adaptability. I mean, you got used to the T3 and T2 change in DMG.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:41

#28

Prevailer

no, you are ignorant, thats

no, you are ignorant, thats how it is
why should i be forced to use 2 different damage types weapons and not be able to use an utility weapon? currently i can use whatever weapon i want and any utility weapon i want on top of that, after this change i'd be forced to use 2 damage weapons, thats forcing playstyles on a player in case he doesnt want to just go back to haven instead of dealing whooping 10 dmg

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:48

#29

Schattentag

@Prevailer

Where did I deny that Divine/Skolver was a commonly used loadout?

Oh that's right - I didn't.

I said that I don't use a cookie cutter loadout, and I've used my nonstandard loadout since before Arsenal Stations existed. This being the case, I am an example that proves your argument to be invalid. No one is forcing you to change any part of your play style, nor is anyone forcing you to change how you build your loadout.

You said I don't understand your argument? Ordinarily I'd find that insulting, but your argument is fragmented (as I've pointed out) and even nonsensical at times:
"breaking news at six: you can already play with whatever loadouts you want whatever you want
...doesnt mean it should be force on the whole community, im sure not everyone is into masochism"
^wtf?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:54

#30

Dream-Harmonics

Honestly, since the start of

Honestly, since the start of this year I've started to use this, more and more:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/351/eb6.jpg?1307463786

I don't want to accuse people of being trolls, but a troll who admits to being one is among the worst, so it's so difficult to tell these days.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:55

#31

Prevailer

"I said that I don't use a

"I said that I don't use a cookie cutter loadout, and I've used my nonstandard loadout since before Arsenal Stations existed. This being the case, I am an example that proves your argument to be invalid. No one is forcing you to change any part of your play style, nor is anyone forcing you to change how you build your loadout."
i dont care what you have personally used, that doesnt matter for everyone you know? removing arsenal stations will cripple my gameplay because i wont be able to use whatever i want, ill have to use something that will work through the whole stratum, thats a seriously dumb idea - the whole community is now already used to arsenal stations, some even went ahead whole arsenal of stuff like all the status drivers and all mist bombs

noone cares that something worked for you and still works

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:06

#32

Schattentag

Oh, okay!

If you're gonna pull that kind of crap, I could do just the same, see?
i dont care what you personally use, that doesnt matter for everyone you know? removing arsenal stations will cripple not my gameplay because i built myself a useful loadout, and i have something that will work through the whole stratum, thats a probably smart idea
noone cares that something doesnt work for you

At this point I have determined that your argument is one to which further response will be disregarded, so I will refrain from providing you with further response.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:08

#33

Prevailer

you already ignored

you already ignored wholesomely everything i said and assumed your own views as the only way to get fun of this game, masochism isnt the only way to enjoy this game
you can go ahead and go full proto if you like, doesnt mean everyone should
nothing stops you from doing so now

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:17

#34

Coitara

I don't mind the idea behind

I don't mind the idea behind having some limitations added back to the arsenal stations, though I do think some of the numbers are a bit pointless thus far suggested. Stratum 1 is what, 1star content where everything is normal damage? The presence of near-guaranteed arsenals there would be rather unnecessary imo.

Though personally, I think arsenals should just appear in specific kinds of levels like interim, boss and arena or something to that effect. Many players I see generally favor a specific weapon anyway and then just rotate whichever compliment they need with maybe some armor getting shuffled around for some defenses, but it'd hard to say at times cuz of costumes. Overall though, not seeing this as a big a ZOMG whine-fest as has been already pointed out, esp not in the current OP suggestion.

The short-term suggestion is to effectively have a less-likely appearance of arms stations the deeper you go; which is largely redundant anyway. How many people make super long treks into the arcade now? Seems very scarse from my play experience; many more people stick to specific missions or only so many floors of an arcade before stopping or resetting. Since enemy types are largely predictable from mission info, or paths set from the arcade map, what a player will encounter isn't a surprise outside of maybe opening up a danger room or arena. So it's not a big deal to need to plan with a few limitations.

Now the longer-trekking players tend to have an elevator pass. And accessory slots. And weapon slots. So geez, then they can come super prepared anyway, so again, an arsenal station is probably again, not that big a factor so I'm not seeing any [i] real [/i] impact by limiting the prevalence of these stations.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:24

#35

Prevailer

because people dont avoid

because people dont avoid arcade already lets make it so those that do it still avoid it further by penalising long runs, perfect!

ive yet to see some reasonable argument for this change other than adding fake difficulty (yes, its fake difficulty because it punishes you for not using universal loadouts and even more so if you use only 2 weapon slots)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 17:21

#36

Luguiru

Hurr

Take away the stations for Prevailer, everyone else keeps them.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:21

#37

Rommil

I'd go the opposite way.

I think they should add more arsenal stations and make the game more difficult.

This would result in knights having to come into each level specifically geared for that challenge, and thus knights would have to keep a wider array of armors and weapons in their arsenal.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:26

#38

Frocus

@OP

I really hope this gets added. I ABSOLUTELY HATED when arsenal stations where added. Made the game less fun like when they nerfed zombies and retrodes and changed brandish charges.

@the argument above
I would just like to testify that I also survived the oh so hated before times of no arsenal stations. And I specialized. (Just look at the list of levels and pick the best weapon that would fit that stratum.) The times when I only had two slot I just used the same strategy. Took whatever sword I thought would be handy and my trusted fire alchemer (this was when the only turrents there were were puppies)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:30

#39

Kive

-1

I am mixed on this one. I feel that the arsenal stations are a great add because you get to use all youre armors and weps. in the old days I would use a normall weapon and an elemental one. I seriously doubt OOO will add this due to the fact it took some work to implement. I hate to be a hater ( the irony) but this will NEVER be implemented, sorry dude Im just keepin it real.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:38

#40

Imperialstriker

The main problem I see is possible rage. But that's unavoidable regarding suggestions where something is taken away.

I rather like this idea. Though my care spectrum is low seeing as I'm a bomber.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 22:52

#41

Softhead

LOL?

Penalising?

Let me guess, he never played before the stations.

You could use a gate map, then prepare.

Orjust buy weapon slots off from the AH. They are around 15000 crowns.

Useless arguemnt is useless.

Also, I forgot.

Utility is another word fof sidearm. Like a Gun sidearm, LIKE THE POLARIS. Or a sword side arm for gunners and bombers.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 01:09

#42

Prevailer

so you dont know whats an

so you dont know whats an utility weapon, well duh
so your attention span is too short to keep context in mind, well duh
so you think a gate map will allow someone to utilise fully their massive arsenal that they built for the purpose of having choice and not being forced to used universal cookie cutter loadouts, thats one pathetic joke leaking with ignorance

ill demand a refund if this goes live because it will render most of my items in my arsenal never usable again

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 01:36

#43

Fehzor

I might have to actually pay

I might have to actually pay for an extra weapon slot again if this happens lol. I wouldn't mind too much. Really, the arsenal stations are not that amazing. Half the time I don't change my loadout at all just out of laziness. And yeah, it'd make normal weapons more worth it.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 08:56

#44

Softhead

REally?

Now I know you.

Don't like change, can't accept compromise. Insults anyone who disagrees with you.

Just calm down, and try and adapt to probelms. If you think about it, you can easily grind said level that has a high payout, get trinkets. I mean, do you do FSC constantly? Or you don't understand, and you have joined as soon as the patches were released.

Go and demand a refund, OOO won't care.

Really.

I have an idea, lets just ignore him. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:11

#45

Paweu

"Insults anyone who disagrees

"Insults anyone who disagrees with you."

That would be you calling him illiterate (while its easy to see that he is actually literate) just because he rolled out solid points that you don't agree with.

Also, on thread: -1, because it doesn't do anything to me as I'm sporting 4 slots all the time and can see it causing grief for the people who aren't in endgame yet because there is priority of crafting equipment is more important than wasting every month 250 energy because someone wanted to get something that in the end won't never even affect him.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:26

#46

Tsubasa-No-Me

Look.

Frankly? I skipped over Most of this. Seeing How That dream crusher is crushing the same dreams that have been crushed time and time again.

Here's my two bits....

This game is set up for Offence, not defense.

I don't agree with that. I want it to change.

Normal damage weaponry is MADE for defending, and it does a HORRIBLE job, because the Game LENDS itself to making Offence your best defense.

It sickens me.

So, most of the suggestions that are shot down by the majority (Clones of all three classes.), are ones that will make their sets less important, and bring the other sets to importance.

What most people don't realize is: if the game had legitimate and equal defensive gear, it would not only give players more variety and balance, but all those unused set would be CRAFTED, and that means profit for OOO, and profit for players.

"Sure, I guess I can help, but first, smash."
~Tsu

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:08

#47

Autofire

Prevailer: "ill demand a

Prevailer: "ill demand a refund if this goes live because it will render most of my items in my arsenal never usable again"

Um, why? For one thing, you could go in a party. You could then easily take different things because you wouldn't be relying on doing pure damage all yourself. For another thing, some of it will become more useful because of its ability to be universally powerful. It doesn't have to be as low as 10% chance in stratum 6, anyway. And so many people grind FSC, it wouldn't be noticed that much. (I don't grind it much, though.)

Also, I should point out: I put an edit in the OP.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:38

#48

Prevailer

"Um, why? For one thing, you

"Um, why? For one thing, you could go in a party. You could then easily take different things because you wouldn't be relying on doing pure damage all yourself. For another thing, some of it will become more useful because of its ability to be universally powerful. It doesn't have to be as low as 10% chance in stratum 6, anyway. And so many people grind FSC, it wouldn't be noticed that much. (I don't grind it much, though.)"
not everyone parties you know
i dont party because my friends dont play sk because "i dont feel like playing some pay 2 win game" now dont judge them ok thats not the point and pugs are a state of disaster ive been kicked out alot tiems even on the loading screen because they didnt like that ive came in wolver costume to tier3 and you know its not that uncommon it happening, look around forums you will see plenty threads about unfair kicks and people kickin others because they were takin time and other rly stupid reasons
once you get a boot in a devilish drudgery with a sentenza and venom veiler (becaus hypothetically i could not swap my weapons on this devilish drudgery in a shock stratum because of this change you propose) you will know what i mean
its clear that you are too lazy to limit yourself (while ignoring the flaws), instead you want the devs to limit you

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:51

#49

Softhead

You're talking about pugs.

Start knowing guild members and be in a guild.

Get players who you know from RL.

Meet up with well known and nice people.

Look at forum made help with lv, make party threads.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:58

#50

Prevailer

guilds in a nutshell: grind

guilds in a nutshell: grind vanaduke till death because CE prices are too damn high
ill pass
i dont want to intrude also on someones private time especially when i dont know them at all
party threads dont have place forums
everthing here is: grind vanaduke or rjp till you get bored and then log off
im playing arcade purely boss stratums bore the hell out of me they are the same everytime you go inside them

Search

Limit Arsenal Stations (Probably not what you think.)