Poison is heavily dependent on supportive tactics and the Lichen attack of creating spikes in an inconsistent area of effect has been discussed in the past, though not given detail as far as I can remember. So about two feet.

Normally creating a new mechanic starts with the actual mechanic. In my own thread I often go into detail of how the actual weapon works, its advantages and disadvantages; a smaller sword has more mobility and speed but a larger sword has greater swing range, a blunt weapon is more difficult to recover from a swing but delivers a more significant direct force, et cetera. This is mostly for melee weapons as guns and bombs are only limited by how creative the user can be, seeing as they are fairly straightforward; with guns you shoot, with bombs they explode. Guns can vary by design significantly, though for balance several possibilities are unapplicable. Sniper rifles are an example of this. Pulsar is essentially a grenade launcher. Catalyzer is essentially a sticky bomb launcher. A rocket launcher would be difficult to balance since it would have a similar mechanic as Magnus but with more damage. With bombs we have little to work with; manually detonated explosives, traps, mine fields. Imagine if the user could create a spike trap but it effects everyone; knight and enemy alike. Normal spike traps would still have no effect on enemies, but player set ones would. Bomb mechanics primarily rely on how creative the user can be without creating something overpowered, such as a spike trap which does not effect players but damages enemies; unless it were a temporary spike trap and only lasted a few/couple seconds, in which case it would just be a Vaporizer with pierce damage instead of a status.

Before continuing, note the only combination of an offensive mechanic and status afflicting ability for bombs is Ionized Salt; and we all know where it goes wrong. Electron supposedly had its shock ability removed and damage bumped up to match Graviton though last I checked Electron still inflicts shock; this was about two weeks ago.

When balancing a bomb, the mechanic is the primary significant factor; its damage rates against a single target, its damage rate in ratio to charge time (DPS), and its potential damage based on damage per second in ratio to the surface area covered. Under our circumstances (D29, neutral target, max charge, no damage buffs) the Barra- wait, are you basing damage on a target weak to pierce? No, that would mess up all the proportions. Stick to neutral, apply bonus damage later. The damage dealt upon an enemy weak/resistant to specialized damage is not consistent with all weapons. The main issue with this root/spike mechanic is determining the effective damage surface, seeing as it can not be random in a given radius. When we have a maximum radius of effect, surface area covered in damaging brambles/roots/those-spike-things-that-stab-out-of-the-floor, and damage afflicted by being in the area of effect upon detonation it will be possible to balance this. Keep in mind having a status significantly reduces damage following the original balancing. Also keep in mind bombs are divided into two basic mechanic areas: offensive (standard, shard) and supportive (Vaporizer, suction). Offensive bombing deals more damage than supportive but offers little team utility; you do damage, but offer little to no team support. Supportive bombs inflict statusesusesuses and/or troll enemies, such as trapping several enemies in a Graviton or inflicting a status in a large area of effect with any Vaporizer. These often deal significantly less damage in a smaller area of effect with far less potential damage but have statusesuses and teamwork utility. Seeing as this concept mechanic is primarily offensive, giving it a status would put it on the same bandwagon as Ionized Salt; somewhat offensive but has supportive ability in its significant status rate, yet has horrible damage and charge time for an offensive bomb, and lacks in supportive ability other than inflicting shock to a few targets at most after preparing the elongated charge. As an offensive style bomb it would either be a shorter range shard mechanic with more damage, but lacking in potential consecutive shard impact from the projectiles being fired from a small epicenter which can potentially result in several shards damaging a target at once; it lacks in overall area of effect as Nitronome and Barrage dominate, but can potentially outdamage against very few targets.

Poison itself increases damage done, so using the alchemers to compare is a dumb move.

Better try with Plague needle and Blitz. The difference is bigger than 18% per shot... and try to do the math for full damage from charge... you'll be amazed by the difference.

You replied to s simple: "We... Have a poison bomb" with a "Thank you for the troll Damien, your thought has been noted."

Anyone else would have reiterated poison 'DPS' bomb, not a simple poison bomb.

You complain Juances is being rude? Mirrors show you wonders buddy.

In any case, -1. Having a DPS bomb with the ability to cause the same status as a mist bomb would overshadow said mist line. If they made you walk slower to compensate, that actually allows you to hit more targets. Increase the fuse time, the bomb will have little/none of the desired effect. A different damage type makes no difference; they'd be replacing the VV with it anyway, so they didn't really need the damage anyway; the extra damage is bonus.

It isn't really outshined, 'cuz I'm pretty sure the ISB has a lot more range on the DBB, and has Normal damage as opposed to pure Piercing. It's just a matter of preference. More specialized damage or More general Damage.

Adding a Poison DPS bomb for the purpose of more PvP usage isn't really a viable argument, on the fact that it's doing the same thing the VV does, except with damage. Considering it'd have lower damage to compensate for it's status effect, you may as well be using a standard DPS bomb for more raw damage, seeing as the Poison still wouldn't have much of an effect, unless you're teaming the guy in which the VV would be useful in anyway.

I know some bombers who carry VV in PvE, but they mostly only do it in areas where they know menders/silkwings will be, for obvious reasons. Also in RJP, to stop the RJ from healing itself instead of hoarding vials.

Also, I just thought: if this bomb is ever released, there will be complaints about OPness shortly following. Why? Because not only is it a clearly damaging bomb, significantly more so than the VV or it's usage would be pointless, it stops the mobs you'd normally use a poison bomb against from healing. So it'd be better than the VV in all ways, and fighting Mender and Silkwing assisted monsters will go from a walk in the park (with VV) to a breeze through your hair (new bomb)

So instead of having to poison them, switch weapon and mow them down, you can do that OR play safe and bomb spam until everything is dead.

The point of there being no DPS+status bombs is that you could easily just place the bomb and run away. It's somewhat easier than gunning, because gunners while attacking are slower, have little knockback, and have to trade more knockback for speed.

Bombers on the other hand, can just place their bombs continuously. Obviously it takes some degree of skill to clear out mobs quickly and efficiently, even with DPS bombs, but if you had a DPS bomb WITH a status, no bomber would need to do ANYTHING after that. They could quite literally spam their bomb as they walk away, while everything died behind them.

Except for a freeze DPS bomb, where the user would have to walk continuously around his immobilized targets, spamming his bomb so they take damage AND remain frozen.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against bombers, and neither do I think their job is easy. I'm saying that they have the ABILITY to be able to do an attack and walk away from it while enemies take hits, so if you made a DPS status bomb, it'd make that job SO much easier. Like a DPS fire bomb, enemies would die so much faster.

I needent speak more about the fact that most bombs have a large range was well, and how that would help with bombers OPing everything with Status DPS bombs.

Alchemers have only two shots and show you down quite a bit while shooting, not to mention reloading. A Knight attacking constantly with one while retreating would have some issues doing that.

Also: Trust me, if Damien was actually trolling, or condemning the idea, he'd say something along the lines of: 'This is stupid, we already HAVE a Poison bomb. Maybe the OP should play the game for more than 5 mins before coming to the forums to suggest things that already exist.'

I think. Or maybe I'm imitating the wrong person...

I don't really know the damage numbers for mist bombs, but I'm assuming they must be around the 10-50s in T3, also assuming mist bombs have detonation damage.

In any case, with a damage number that low, you may as well just ask for a buff of the already existing bomb. As it stands, this idea is one of those: 'Overkill or useless' type weapon ideas (no offense), where if the numbers go too high, you'll pwn, and if the numbers go too low, it'd suck.

Gunning is easier to stay alive, somewhat true. With most guns in the range, you can only hit single targets, unless Autogun type. Bombs, however, cover a larger area, and so can deal with enemy hordes much easier ('easy' being relative.)

I'm a hybrid player, and my only 'DPS bombs' are the DR and Graviton. From experience, a solo bomber, like you said, can choose anything in his/her array of weapons without worry of disturbing other players, thus you can use your DPS bombs. In a party however, bombers are normally a support role, others getting irritated by the blast animations.

By introducing a DPS+Status bomb, it would completely overshadow the VV in both situations. Non-graphically demanding animations = less aggravated party members = safe for use in a Party, and When solo, DPS+status bomb-spam = Targets taking damage and unable to heal.

Dependent on damage numbers, the solo situation would either mean high damage to mobs that can't exactly defend themselves, or low damage that would make it no better than the VV/couldn't be considered as a DPS bomb, just a tweaked VV. Already I can mow through jellies with the DR, simply laying them and running away (I'm not a very good bomber, so sometimes I get too close and get pwned); having a Poison DPS bomb would mean Menders can't do their job, and you can avoid your assailants without actually having to FOCUS on damaging them like you normally would, their source of healing corked and therefore their increased difficulty brought down to as if the healers weren't there.

Fire and other DPS statuses are balanced/underachieving in these situations because they can be healed WHILE being damaged. With poison stemming the healing process, and the bomb itself damaging them, a Poison DPS bomb COULD overshadow those too. (disregarding immune monsters)

TL;DR
In any case, it'd overshadow the VV line completely. If it can do more damage than it AND supply the same status, the VV will become a 'useless' weapon in comparison, regardless of damage type.

I'd prefer this discussion was assisted by another bomber. I'm not completely comfortable speaking objectively about a weapon-class without a said-class user sharing the same opinion.

"f I take that reasoning and apply it to what we already have in game we may as well do away with about half of the armor and several weapons of each class because they are outshined by other options. "

Some are, some aren't. The Cautery Sworrd is one example of a completely overshadowed weapon; it's original use was for combat against Slimes, but is rendered obsolete damage-wise to the Nightblade line, which goes higher than 3* and deals more damage than it at it's 3* version.

But people still get it because they think it's a neat weapon to have. They don't particularly care about it's overall functionality.

However, armours like Cobalt are supposedly overshadowed by Wolver, but really, Wolver trades defense for a sword bonus. (I know, it's really popular regardless, but some people prefer the extra defense).

Polaris overshadows Supernova damage-wise, no doubt. Players are still trying to find a way to change that, whether it be by adding stun or something.

So yes, some people probably WOULD get the VV over this new bomb, but only for better pure poison functionality (aka 100& hitrate). Generally, people would get this bomb first, then the VV when they're bored/have cash to spare. Otherwise, it's more or less better than the VV on all counts, save for spread, easily remedied by the continual deployment of the bomb behind you, hitting whatever was stupid enough to follow.

I'd better stop talking before another bomber comes with his/her opinion. I don't want to get out of my depth here.