As in how far you move forward with each combo swing. This is supposed to hit things like the rocket hammer/flourish the most. I'd say they're about the two most annoying swords in PVP, and the one thing they have in common is the large forward movement in their combos. This wouldn't be extreme, I'm just asking for a subtle decrease in movement length.
Decrease player movement on swords.
Di, 07/03/2012 - 18:56
Di, 07/03/2012 - 19:25
#2
I don't really agree..
Hammer doesn't need to move slower, it needs to be interruptable. And maybe have one of it's hits removed. If you drop movement, you also have to generally reduce knockback because currently forward movement is matched to knockback to keep monsters in the player's hitbox. Personally, I think that the distances are fine at the moment; it takes time to complete a flourish combo and the speed of the hammer is the integral concept of the weapon... on the other hand, the extra leap at the end is quite annoying.. but it's not without a penalty (the pause after a combo).
As for the extended hitbox thing, that's you having an imperfect ping. I warp all the time in LD because I get hit by attacks that don't take effect until about a quarter of a second after they were actually performed. Hence, on my end, I often run away from an attack only to snap back into position and get whalloped.
As for nerfing flourish, I just think we need to drop it's damage. It's OP in PvE, it's even more OP in PvP. Removing AA would also be nice, but OOO has shown no signs of doing so.
Di, 07/03/2012 - 20:33
#3
PVP is not the focus of the game.
In regular, PVE levels, the flourish and WRH are DANGEROUS weapons to use, because of their movement (more the WRH). They also deal pure damage, and are thus powerful. With the WRH this is a very fair trade. You need to be fairly skilled to not end up in traps or under a trojan's sword all the time. The flourish is easier to use, for sure, but it's still a specialized sword, that deals pure damage. If your attacking something with piercing resistance, your dealing next to no damage (PVE).
I would rather them BAN the flourish and WRH from lockdown then change the movement. It's the only thing that makes the WRH fun, and it gives the flourish it's main use in killing chasing down wolvers and dodging devilites.
EDIT: And the hammer is interruptable. If I go after someone with a fast weapon, I can't even get the first swing off. I just kind of sit there and twitch.
Di, 07/03/2012 - 21:58
#4
Response
I wrote this somewhere already, but pure damage swords only get the damage increase of mixed damage swords. I don't see why people so often want flourishes and hammers banned; sealed swords are slow without ASI and the hitbox on a brandish is REALLY hard to aim. It's nerfing swordies below gunners and bombers, which I don't want to see.
On interruption... I'm not exactly sure about the mechanics, but I know that at one point or another in the combo hammers are immune to interruption.
Mi, 07/04/2012 - 05:26
#5
@Addisond
As for the extended hitbox thing, that's you having an imperfect ping
I had a thorn blade once. I found that, during one of the Scarlet Fortress stages where you have to hit a switch and run to the gate through spikes and explosive blocks, it was made incredibly easy using the blade since I could hit the blocks and the switch from the other side of the two tiles of spikes. The range is redonculous.
Mi, 07/04/2012 - 06:19
#6
Post
@Lordofnecromancers
Hi necro, Yes I did quit around the anaversery.
@Addisond
Might be his ping. I find the flourish weapons to look like they reach a bit further than they appear. Not that they reach too far; the graphic for the blade just seems a tad misleading. You might be right about the hammer, I don't know, but if it did have it's movement length decreased, it could have the explosion knockback scaled down equaly.
Also; "pure damage swords only get the damage increase of mixed damage swords."
What? Then why don't they make it deal half normal? I figured full peircing = twice the bonus & twice the penalty relative to something with half normal.
@Theopholis
This is still abused in shadow lairs and other PVE areas. I see people using the flourish attack to get through the black goop. Not to mention pure damage is overpowered in PVE. Makes feind and beast levels easy, I used to use a snarbolax 3* blade with my angelic and drake armor in teir two. All you do is change weapons when a different level pops up. They will still function just fine in PVE, if not better than most. There isn't allot of gear with high peircing ressistance. I could understand what you meant if say, mercurial demo had peircing resist, or there was some type of bombing gear with peirce, but there isn't.
@Zeddy
I've done that. You can hit things with the very end of the flourish, but with a DA or GF you have to use a little edge.
Mi, 07/04/2012 - 07:24
#7
Hammer is slow, predictable
Hammer is slow, predictable and easy to dodge. Unless you're preoccupied, you should have little trouble getting away.
Do, 07/05/2012 - 04:44
#8
Not in teir 1 PVP. Everyone
Not in teir 1 PVP. Everyone has heavy hatchets, so the hammer has an obvious leg up.
Do, 07/05/2012 - 19:12
#9
@zeddy
I know how giant the flourish hitbox is, it's not eight squares.
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 00:48
#10
T1 lockdown everybody has ASI
T1 lockdown everybody has ASI high Heavy Hatchets. If you're decent you can hatchet someone before they get that first hammer swing off. There are also a few Hot/Static Edge aficionados who delight in flinching hammer-heads before they can swing.
And since there are only Normal and Elemental damage dealers in T1, anyone with sense will be wearing Elemental protection so there's another edge for the hammer debunked.
(unless they opt for Cyke Cap or Fencing Jacket, but that seems like a fair tradeoff)
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 00:49
#11
for the lulz
let's nerf flourish and hammer, so we can watch ppl start complaining about the spur line, eh?
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 01:18
#12
@Addisond
I never said it was eight squares, nor did anyone else in this thread.
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 06:30
#13
I don't think that switch is
I don't think that switch is eight squares away, if memory serves. I will note that my memory isn't the best, but I'm fairly certain that it's less than eight whole spaces.
Oneerranttwitch, the spur line attack dosen't move forward more than a normal sword attack, it just starts moving with the first attack as opposed to the second. It's close to a calibur swings movement, but instead of doing 1-2-3 it goes 2-2-3. Spur is what points out that the reach (since it shoots bullets) isn't probabaly the main problem with these weapons.
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 14:08
#14
oops
I thought you were saying that the cause of getting hit was the massive hitbox, not a product of lag. Eight squares is about how far I warp when I get hit.
Fr, 07/06/2012 - 14:18
#15
Still not quite getting you
Still not quite getting you addisonod.
I'm just trying to say that the player using the flourish should move forward less when using hits 2 and 3, and should have it's knockback adjusted so that it dosen't hit people out of range. Same goes for the rocket hammer.
Yes! Necro agrees!
It's also sort of annoying, a toothpick's extra reach. They can hit people that aren't even in the range of the swing, for some reason. If I had a penny for every time I died in LD when someone killed me with a sword strike that I was obviously out of range of, I'd have $1, give or take. They need to fix this.
Off topic...
ORANGEO? Remember me? I'm on of your friends. I thought you'd left the game. I checked when the last time was you logged on a few days ago, and it showed that the last time you logged on was several months ago... ._. Anyway, glad to have you back.