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Dynamic shadowfire

8 replies [Last post]
Wed, 07/11/2012 - 18:58
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl

So shadowfire is cool and all but it is a bit stale. Come on, we're talking about shadow fueled flames that cannot be cleaned except with a magic floaty water ball thingy. But still it's too easy to avoid because it doesn't move. That's right. You know what's coming.

Dynamic Shadowfire!

Here's how it works. Shadowfire will be bound by the rules of the game of life (links below) Only in rooms where there is water to put it out. That is to prevent it from walling off an area. Also another rule should be added; shadowfire will be turned on in a space if it has been activated on that space previously and has been more than three ticks since it has been deactivated unless it was deactivated by water.

Tick length will be anywhere from 1-10 seconds long based of a variable connection timings and ping. Ergo the more you lag the more time there will be between ticks. This will be recalculated after every two ticks to prevent people with mediocre connections getting too much lag from it appearing/ disappearing too fast.

Also for Vana battles instead of having shadowfire fall from the sky have two snakes made out of shadowfire of length 5 spawn as creatures who will move towards the player at the speed of a zombie shuffle. Everytime Vana hits with his mace their length grows by 3. They can only be completely taken out with a waterball hit to the "head" which has the mortar gremlins half shield in front. Any other hits separates the snake where it was hit, with the pieces not attached to the head becoming stationary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/59323#comment-431979

Edit: Screw the blasted forums I can't get the link to work. Just copy and paste you immoral rapscallions.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 03:47
#1
Aureate's picture
Aureate
Processing Thoughts of You Always

fff
this would make me rage
so hard

...but +1 anyway because I'm a masochist.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 09:12
#2
Evilnut's picture
Evilnut
What do you mean there's

What do you mean there's shadow fire in this empty tile? Lag says hi.

Here I have one bar (red dot) of connection. Not because of my ISP is bad, but because I'm on the opposite side of Mother Earth. Traps are handled server-side; I already have to time all traps (freeze/fire/shock/spike) mentally because they are in off state before it's shown in my client, and they will be in on state while my client is still showing the flashing.

The 4th phase of Vana is the most time consuming for me, because I have to steer clear of any of the fireballs and slowly shoot the mask from far, because NONE OF THEM were actually where they were shown on my screen.

Traps you can foresee and calculate accordingly, because the location is fixed. But shadow fire playing Game of Life? There is absolutely no way people can dodge any of them with lag.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 10:03
#3
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
O lag...

Modified the OP to handle lag issues.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 20:32
#4
Evilnut's picture
Evilnut
On lag

Nah, I think different timing would just end up confusing... you'd see other knights running through shadow fire.

I suppose the mechanism is okay in the original version... players with lag are playing a different game to begin with. with Game of Life shadow fire we'd just assume all tiles adjacent to shadow fire displayed on screen to be dangerous. We'd just spend more time dousing fire... e.g. each time we approach a water dispenser we'd be prepared to grab one and throw it.

Also, I don't think it is necessary to keep this mechanism to shadow fire alone. Even if FSC doesn't get changed, this dynamic creeping trap mechanism can be applied to something else. Maybe a new kind of drone.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 20:49
#5
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
I assumed

That the lag index would key to the slowest connection in the party and everyone else will go with that.

Also I chose shadowfire because it just seemed silly that regular fire can spread and this uber flame can't.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:41
#6
Ghret's picture
Ghret
How about this?

The SHADOWFIRE follows the Game of Life, with some alterations:

  • Tiles without SHADOWFIRE on them are considered 'dead' SHADOWFIRE.
  • Tiles with other game objects (i.e. spike and blocks; monsters are excluded) on them are treated as 'dead' SHADOWFIRE, but cannot have have SHADOWFIRE spread to them.
  • Tiles with monsters - but no game objects - on them are considered 'dead' SHADOWFIRE.
  • Tiles with Knights on them are treated as 'dead' SHADOWFIRE and can have SHADOWFIRE spread to them.
  • Tiles with objects created by Knights (i.e. Mecha-Knights) count as 'dead' SHADOWFIRE and can have SHADOWFIRE spread to them.

There could also be PERMANENT SHADOWFIRE (It's not what you think)
This is basically the same old Shadowfire we all now and love, except it now acts as 'alive' SHADOWFIRE (in terms of the Game of Life), but it won't die due to the effects of the Game of Life. [May be over-powered]

Tick length (We may need to think this through)
How about the length between Ticks being a pre-determined length? I would recommend 5 seconds, because 5 seconds seems fair to me; though we will inevitably need Testing Feedback.

Coding (If we can't do this, then it's never to going to work)
I suppose altering the parameters of Shadowfire and other tiles so they comply to the Game of Life would be hard, especially the spreading part (basically all of it).
My guess would be that giving Shadowfire tiles a set of 'if' lines which follow the rules of the Game of Life, which then create the other Shadowfire tiles.

So what do you guys think?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 18:05
#7
Evilnut's picture
Evilnut
Other things to consider

With shadow fire spreading and moving, we may also need to reconsider the water dispensers:
- Are the numbers enough? (i.e. concurrent no. of water available for a team of four)
- How frequent should a water spawn? (i.e. how long do I have to wait after throwing the current one?)

Also consider if it should be possible to permanently wipe out shadow fire in a room. I'd like the option to remain open, if the players take the time and risk (dodging monsters/traps already there) to do so. In the boss fight, Vanaduke will generate new shadow fire like he already does.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 16:00
#8
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
@Ghret

Linking your reply in the OP as it's more coherent.
One thing to change is that monsters can move over regular shadowfire so if it's put in that wherever a monster treads= deadfire then it can be eay to move a mob over patches to clear it.

@Evilnut
The current water dispensers are fine as most (except Vana's) immediately re-spawn water. Because of that the number of dispensers is fine too.
It is possible to wipe all the fire from a room as it is now. Tiles deactivated by water will stay off unless there are three "live" tiles by it.

Anyone else want to discuss?

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