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Balance altering 'bugs'

5 replies [Last post]
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 01:10
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Much of the game's balance comes from what may or may not be bugs. Why don't we know if they are bugs? Because in the past, what we considered "correct" the devs have randomly noticed and changed, take for example the volcanic pepperbox's charge that pulled enemies. Similarly, the devs have ignored "bugs" that have been reported time and time again-perhaps these 'bugs' were intended?

-DA/GF were once the talk of the town; now they're once glorious projectiles are sucked into walls- even when said walls are behind the player. This also happens for other things as well, like polaris, callahan, the birds from AP/Sentenza...
-RSS can put 5+ projectiles into a single enemy, allowing it to be on-par with many 5* weapons, even against slimes
-The iron slug does not always cause its opponents to stagger, making it essentially worthless (getting fixed?)
-Alchemer bullets can ricochet internally within a single target, allowing alchemers to compete with argent peacemaker/sentenza in terms of single target damage.
-The bird on the charge of argent peacemaker/sentenza spawns slightly in front of the player, letting enemies that are at close range attack you while not getting hit enough to knock them back.
-Winmillion's charge can be canceled by shielding, and can be made to go in a different direction should the player turn while charging. Combined with its low damage output, the inability to shield directly after a charge makes winmillion's charget terrible.
-Jelly minis slip in between the "bullets" of dark retribution, helping to balance the item against ash of agni, perhaps an error with the hitbox?

Again, I don't know for a fact that these are "broken", because I have not heard either way from an official source; if anyone can think of any more things, feel free to post.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 01:24
#1
Dorael's picture
Dorael
I think it's pretty typical

I think it's pretty typical in games nowadays for players to find/stumble/figure out unintended effects. While most are likely unintended, I wouldn't refer to them as bugs but balance issues. I think of bugs as a more technical issue that does something completely and obviously unintended and possibly breaks things. For example, the Vanaduke fight has several pretty well known bugs in it. Balance issues (big ones anyway) more break the spirit of the game than it does really break the game itself.

I think the Cutter's charge attack suffers from the same charge phenomenon that the Winmillion does btw. Also while most attacks follow line of sight rules, some still cause knockback (like a Lumber attacking from behind a wall).

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 07:19
#2
Dukeplatypus's picture
Dukeplatypus
-DA/GF always did that, as

-DA/GF always did that, as far as I can remember. Also, no mention how AP/Sent birds do it too?
-Not a bug, just short-sighted game design.
-In my experience, it flinches just as often as Callahan, but neither seems to flinch certain mobs or animations.
-Yeah, that's probably a bug, but I doubt it'll be fixed (if it even can be).
-Not a bug, you're just not supposed to release the charge at close range, possibly to not let the bird carry along mobs a la Brandishes.
-Meh, I don't know jack about Winmillion.
-I'd say that's because of the Jelly Mini's weird modeling (In that doesn't actually have one, it's just a 2d sprite).

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:11
#3
Flists's picture
Flists
If the DA/GF projectiles were

If the DA/GF projectiles were meant to do what they do now, it would kind of make sense not to let people just spam the charge attack with their back to a wall. I've never experienced that happening with any of the other weapons you mentioned, though. And if DA/GF are talked about less, it's probably more due to the number of them in the game now as opposed to before when they were rarer. Also, their* =P

I always felt like RSS was a high skillcap weapon due to this "feature." I would rather it stuck around, but they're changing the crystal bomb line sometime in the future so you won't have to worry about this anymore.

My guess with the alchemer thing is that it has to do with the hitbox of the enemy. I think the bullet always "ricochets" at an angle 20 to 160 degrees clockwise from the straight line it was shot at. If the enemy's hitbox is rounded instead of square, shooting the right-most edge of an enemy will allow the bullet to hit, then spawn another bullet that instantly has a wall to hit because of the hitbox.

I don't have enough experience with the other weapons to comment on them.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:43
#4
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
1. I was told the da/gf

1. I was told the da/gf charge were changed, because they used to spawn in front of the players, allowing them to destroy unreachable block and wheels that are behind barrier.

2. This was probably the original use of the bomb. But I guess the devs don't like it now.

3. I do hope this was intended. The ricochet is the only reason it stands up against ap/sent.

Don't have anything else to say.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:45
#5
Batabii's picture
Batabii
Is it really that hard to

Is it really that hard to wait a split second before shielding with winmillion? And it's far better now that it doesn't backstep and the charge penetrates mobs. If it had a 5* variant I'd still say it's better than Leviathan Blade.

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