Spiral Knights - Bromon's Box: A Random Plethora of Ideas (New Idea: The S.E.R.O. on Post 5)

Bromon's Box: A Random Plethora of Ideas (New Idea: The S.E.R.O. on Post 5)

13 replies [Last post]

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:07

Bromon

So Ive had a couple suggestion, which in all honesty shouldn't be taken too seerusly but I still waned to post em anyway. Anyway Im just going to dive right in.

Red CE

This one is probably the most seerus of the suggestions. Ive posted it on a thread but never gave the idea a thread of its own. This is how it works:

When you first buy CE it comes red and is given its appropriate value under the normal blue CE. Red acts exactly like the blue CE we have now, until you trade through the market. Once red CE goes through the market, it become blue CE. Blue CE acts exactly like Red CE, except it can't be distributed through the market. It can still be traded, used or crafting, used for purchases ect. It just cant be sold again through the market. This would prevent market manipulation while still allowing the market to be "Free"(I think). When using your CE for a purchase for something such as a key, The game will automatically us up blue CE before red, and will send you a prompt saying, "Completing this transaction will require use of your red CE. Do you wish to continue"

Magnetic Saw Blades Gun

A new piercing gun as well as my attempt to make a boomerang type weapon work

Description : A gun derived from a cutting mechanism utilized by constructs. Its features a powerful magnet n each of the blades that allows for the quick recovery of saw blades. It has been altered to become a deadly weapon

Appearance : It looks similar to an alchemer but instead of the vials it has a saw blade, pointed at an angle on each side. In the middle of the gun is a tube of saw blades.

Mechanics: The guns shoots a saw blade straight at high velocity that can go through targets. It slows up a bit as it reaches its max range then comes back to were ever the user is standing at its normal velocity in a smooth curve. This allows you a bit of control over the bullet as it comes back. In addition you are allowed to have two saw blades out at once. so lets say it takes 2 seconds for a saw blade to complete its round trip. you would be able to shoot a saw blade very second. Kinda of like a juggling sort of gun. The saw blades do full piercing and can damage enemies both forward and back wards. As long as you juggle the saw blades you don't have to reload. Of course there are conditions. The saw blade are somewhat fragile and thin and as such it cant hit many enemy targets. Each time it it a target its initial damage and size is reduced by a third. So if it starts with an initial of 60 damage and the size of a magnus bullet, after it hits the first target it will only do 40 damage and the bullet hit box will be that of an antigua. after the second enemy hit the blade will only do 20 damage and have a hit box of a catalizer shots. After the third enemy the bullet no longer exist. Because the magnet mechanic lies within the blade itself, once the first blade dissipates, the second blade no longer retains its boomerang qualities and dissipates at its max range. You are then forced to reload. In addition, if you hit something sturdy such as a wall or trojan shield, the saw blade breaks and the same thing happens above.

As for the charge attack, it shoots two blades parallel to each over and slightly over lapping in the middle while spinning inward (think something along the lines of a pair of gears). each blade does low-ish damage, however if a monster is caught in the middle, it receives damage from both blades. Also each blade has a pull in toward the center push back similar to the old pepperbox. The blades do not return.

I'm getting sort of tired of this so Ill post my other idea later. Some balancing problems with this gun though

What would a decent speed/rate be and how would ASI work?
I was thinking that the gun shoots a little faster then the recovery rate of the saw blades. This would mean that in order to "juggle" you'd have to time your shots? Would this be weapon breaking?
Should the umber of enemies aloud to pass through be increased?

A little later Ill post possible stats and the rest of my ideas

Fortify Pills

Clockwork Research

Specialist Pedants

Water Saw...Blade...thing?

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:56

Fehzor

"Red CE"
Sounds good to me. All existing CE should stay or become blue as well. Lets hit the market hard.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 08:37

Ramorri

Under your system of Red and

Under your system of Red and Blue CE, the people who would get the most profit would be the P2P crowd, as they are the ones purchasing CE. On the other hand, the F2P would be completely at their mercy, unable to sell their energy if they need a few crowns for a transaction.

In addition, by limiting the amount of CE in the market, the price will increase (via supply and demand). So congratulations on making CE pierce 10k crowns. You're a real champion.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 10:41

Little-Juances

Boomerang + striker boost = ?!?!?!?!. Also, obstacles, complex mazes, path finding, etc.

Rather than a boomerang, get an alchemer and replace the split bullets orientation. Cheap pseudo-boomerang

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 14:10

Bromon

Arguably the intention of CE

Arguably the intention of CE is not to make money off CE itself, but rather to give F2P players a chance to earn things without having to pay. The system is merely a means to stop market manipulation. Nothing more. And as for the saw blade, its really not an alchemer at all, No status and completely different style of play. Still its a pretty broken weapon. Ill admit that.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 16:23

Bromon

Arguably the intention of CE

Clockwork Research

This is a pretty long one so bear with me

So this one was inspired by the "Lets Hunt for a Dark-fang Shield" Thread. Its intention is to promote the clockworks, exploration and Teamplay.
To start off, there would need to be a new group of NPC's, preferably located in the furthest right side of the Arcade. This group of NPC's would be the S.E.R.O. The Spiral Exploration and Research Organization. It is here that you would be Briefed on any research projects currently available (more on that later), submit research material (later), and receive a temporary "badge of mastery" (later) from three separate NPC's.

Research Briefing
The first NPC you talk to would be the normal research guy from the missions (don't know his name =P). He'll inform on what the current project is. Research Projects are attempts to uncover secrets about the clockworks and their inhabitants through exploration. Each project would be random, and focus on a certain Family and even status. They would be available only for a limited time as well. Basicly they're triggered by the appearence of a smaller "Biosphere" Mixed into the normal Biospheres of the gate. These Mini-biospheres have never been touched/open to any other part of the clockworks. As a result this smaller biome becomes an abundant amount of evidence and clues to the origins of the particular world. As such, the SERO asks you to explore these areas and recover samples.

Exploring Mini-Biomes.
Mini-Biomes appear in a gate, at the least, every four gates. It could be longer, perhaps up to 6 or 7 gates. This means that only one research gate can be active at once. It also means you have a week to complete the research. The gate that the actual mini-biome appears in will be the only place to find the mini-biome. These will appear in all clockwork tunnels as well as the level that corresponds to the type of research curtently active (in a similar way as cake rooms did)(For example a Beast untouched mini-biome has appeared in Gate A. Mini-biome rooms will appear in All clockwork tunnels in gate A as well as all Wolver dens in gate A). Apperance wise, they're more like smaller clockwork tunnels that look more natural (ex. How Snarby level looks compared to wolver dens). The goal is to not only clear the room but to also
grab Minerals (real looking minerals) that would be used in research. The exit does not lock, so you can essentially run, grab a mineral and escape. However, monster is these mini-biome drop specific materials only used in research. These materials are also dropped from all monsters of the corresponding family in all gates, but at a VERY reduced percentage. The skill level of the room is scaled by top gear to prevent T1 farming. After completing the room, you return to the SERO to submit the things you've found to research

Exploring TLDR:

-Mine-Biomes appear in specific gates themed with a specific family (every 4-6 gates)
-Exploring these mini-biomes (which resemble a more "natural" clockwork) gives you certain mats and minerals used specifically in research
- You have a week to complete research.

Research.
Upon Completing these mini-biomes you must talk to the second NPC. You are then asked to deposits your special mats and mineral for research purposes. There is a quota for each type of mat and mineral that is FAR to large for a single person to complete. This is were the inspiration frok the Darkfang shield thread came in. Everybody shares the same quota. In order to meet this quota to finish the research, it will require a larger effort by everyone else. You are given compensation for your effort. But its rather small. 1-2 crowns per mat. However, if you help enough (through a smaller personal quota based off a percentage of the larger (like 1%)) you are acknowledge as a master in the field. This allows you to reap the benefits of the larger prize.

Completed research
If the full research quota is completed, then a whole new biome would be "discovered" in the next gate. It would be accessed by showing your Mastery in the Field badge medal thing to a SERO member in the Clockworks terminal. This would unlock that broken elevator (that's now magically fixed) allowing all party member access for 10 energy of course. (or alternatively could be accessed through a mission =\). The level would differ from the mini-biomes in that it would be an actual level with back round. An example would be a Lost gremlin city or a old jelly civilization. These levels would be hard, but not as hard as danger mission and would probably feature more exploration and puzzles then combat. At the end of these levels there (maybe) will be a mini boss and finally a module giving information about how the family type was originally and stuff like that. After completing this single level you are returned to the clockworks terminal and the elevator locks for good.

After the Level.
Afterwards you return to the SERO group and speak to the last NPC who's job is to report to the Spiral Order. You can there trade in your Master in the field badge as well as the module info (you still keep a copy) and in return you are rewarded a special exclusive item. (Cosmetic only. Most likely a re-skin of an armor or accessory)

Also. I really need another name for "mini-biomes" so if someone has an idea that would be great.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 14:54

Ramorri

How to economics

So why, in Skylark's name, are you proposing to restrict where F2Pers can purchase energy from?

More sellers = more competition

More competition = cheaper prices all around

Maybe F2Pers want to play the market too? Maybe they want to buy as much energy as they can when it dips down low, to sell it off when it shoots back up high again? With the Red/Blue CE system, you just restrict a player's freedom.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 15:11

Little-Juances

"More sellers = more competition
More competition = cheaper prices all around"

If someone buys CE it's because they need it. Else, we're talking about people that buys CE only to resell at an higher price
And I woudlnt call resellers 'competition'.

There's a good side to his idea.

"Maybe F2Pers want to play the market too?"
yes they do, but they'll only sell t an an higher price right? unless they're dumb or liek to waste money.

"Maybe they want to buy as much energy as they can when it dips down low, to sell it off when it shoots back up high again?"
Exactly. You're totaly right... but that isnt necessarily a good thing.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 15:15

Zolota

Quick economy lesson

In a market, the price of goods decreases the more sellers there are. The more buyers, the more demand there is, the higher the price will go.

Should some rich people come and decide to sell CE on the market, they make competition and bring the price down, crown per crown (sublime rhyme)
Should some F2Ps go into crafting rushs and make buying competition, the price raises and raises.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 15:34

Ramorri

@Little-Juances

Resellers are competition, like it or not. They are competing with other CE sellers in order to sell their CE.

Like it or not, the market price will continue to go up until it reaches an equilibrium due to the mechanics of supply and demand. As Zolota said above me: More sellers = cheaper prices. More buyers = higher prices. The opposite is also true.

If you take away the F2P sellers, prices will increase, as there is less competition for P2P players, who can then set a higher price on energy.

Basically you're gimping the market to fix a non-problem, and creating an even bigger one.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 16:36

#10

Bromon

But if the only way to obtain

But if the only way to obtain CE is through buying it with real money, that means no matter how much a FTP buys off the market, the supply will stay the same right? And if the supply set by the PTP players stays the same then the demand will too? So I guess what I'm trying to ask is doesn't buying and selling not change the supply and demand but rather recycle it in an infinitely price rising system. If you use up the supply, putting the supply back in the market doesn't create more competition, but rather replaces the previous competition at a higher price....I think

Also, A post above has been updated to include the clockwork research idea.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 16:53

#11

Ramorri

Lawlconomics

Supply won't stay the same if you lock it off from being sold again. It will continually decrease (barring that some P2P doesn't splurge upon a massive energy package), and the price will continue to increase.

But, supposing your idea that supply remains the same, the demand would in fact change. Supply and demand are both two independent variables. You can have a small supply, and large demand which equals expensive prices. You can have a small supply and small demand, which would be "reasonably" priced, to those who need it. You could have a large supply and small demand which gives extremely cheap prices, or a large supply and large demand, giving the "reasonable" prices as before.

The point is, reducing a player's freedom to sell will not effect energy prices in any meaningful way except by causing them to shoot upwards. The only way that will happen is if there is a sudden loss of demand (ie, every F2Per quits Spiral Knights), or a sudden rocket of supply, (every F2Per buys CE).

---

The mineral-hunting seems like an interesting idea to breathe life back into the Arcade. But where does it bring in profit to OOO? They've got to code these new NPCs and missions, design and playtest new levels, code in the balancing you described, and all sorts of other things-- but for what? The Danger Missions, at the very least, are a massive CE sink for revivals. Where does OOO get profit from adding in this mission?

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 17:46

#12

Bromon

Hmm thats a good question...

Hmm thats a good question... i was thinking more people would be willing to buy elevator passes and Ce as the quota would be huge. It would be very possible to miss it entirely. But that might not be enough... Well I guess there are a number of options.

1. Rather then receiving the item itself, the player could receive a 5* recipe of the item. This would provide a consistent reason for even 5* players to buy CE every week.

2. Instead have the 3rd NPC sell a "coordinate key" (bound one time only) which is basically an device programmed with the exact position of the final boime. This key would be implanted in the elevator in the terminal allowing for access. This key would also cost 250-400 CE.

3 Have energy gate blocking the mini-boimes in the clockwork that are only open-able with energy similar to danger rooms.

the problem is making sure players don't feel like they're getting ripped off for their efforts

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 18:11

#13

Blandaxt

profit

@RAMorri:
it doesn't necessarily have to be about profit u know. sure OOO can make a small profit on the side, but this game is suppose to be a free to play game and an optional pay to play. even though market has created a crowd of p2p players, it doesn't mean that the only goal SK was created for was profit. so profit is not a big issue for every update/new content that spiral knights have.

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Bromon's Box: A Random Plethora of Ideas (New Idea: The S.E.R.O. on Post 5)