I know the the bombs suck, but I want a bomb for defeating slimes. The shocking salt bomb seems like a good fit for that. With a damage bonus vs slime, I hope to use it for Rj palace. Should. I get one?
Is the shocking salt bomb any good?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:30
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:48
#2
If they suck then why would
If they suck then why would you want one? ;)
The SSB is OK. It's probably the second or third best bomb to kill JK with (DR being the best). As far as clearing levels goes, I don't think the SSB is very good. One of the problems with the shard bombs is their base damage is very, very low. For example if you had a flourish and you ran up against undead you could still do fine. If you have a SSS and come up against undead you're throwing pebbles out at it so in SSB's case, the biggest problem leading up to JK is that there will be a lot of construct in your way.
Keep in mind that the playstyles are drastically different. With shard-style bombs you're going to spend a lot of time dodging attacks/knockback. There is little anticipation pre-bomb drop; you have to just spam it and then anticipate what will happen after an explosion from something you dropped 2 bombs back goes off. Another problem is that because its neutral damage is so pitiful, you're going to have to be dodging all kinds of constructs while also dodging jelly cube attacks all while not being able to see what's going on because of all the flashes.
The DR is more of a kite bomb where you don't dodge many attacks at all, instead you just drop it where it'll deliver its payload and then make sure enemies stay in it or run through it.
The blast bombs offer offense and defense and allow you to play more aggressively than the other two.
If you're OK with having to dodge attacks/knockback then the SSB is very usable.
Here is a a video of partial RJP D14 clears with DR, BAB, Nitro, and SSB.
I only ran each bomb run once and picked these rooms because of their static spawns and variety of enemies that you'll face in RJP. I'm not sure if you can draw any meaningful conclusions but the times for each clear were:
DR 1:25
BAB 1:44
Nitro 1:20
SSB 2:34
(All runs w/ 5*, fully heated, max dmg, max ctr)
For clearing up to JK I think DR and Nitro are the best choices. DR is a bit safer in some areas where you're able to kite around while Nitro is a better choice in rooms where you'll be fighting around a lot of environmental hazards and pinned down.
For the boss fight itself, DR is probably the best followed by Nitronome or SSB. My guess is that the SSB will suffer from its long double-fuse mechanic during the second phase of the boss. You have no idea where royal jelly will stop spinning so you can only guess where to drop bombs before he is vulnerable then after he can take damage you're left crossing your fingers hoping the bombs you placed while he was spinning are in the right spot and go off to hit him. In this regard, nitronome's same charge time but much faster fuse will alow you to DPS RJ a lot more. DR is the highest DPS in this fight with a fast fuse and charge; its one downside here is the inability to hit the mini cubes which can end up overwhelming you.
tl;dr: no
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:01
#3
The man above me used a different bomb than I did
It's better for doing RJP than DR is. The shock surpresses the random knockback problem which the other shard bombs have and shock is just all-around useful. In addition, the ISB capable of hitting mine jellies unlike DR. Sure, the damage is less but you'll control the crowd better. I found it very quick to take down the Royal Jelly with, too. But yeah,
Imagine if Dark Retribution and Voltaic Tempest met at a bar, hit it off and made sweet, tender, bomby love. This bomb is the result of that. I'm going to bring it for my Ice Queen run.
DR is more useful for lumbers and turrets so there's that.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:02
#4
O_O
Why isn't it on the Darkmatter line?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:11
#5
@Tohru-Adachi
Rock Salt bomb upgrades from Dark Matter Bomb. What are you talking about?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:20
#6
.....
Oh, was confused...
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:24
#7
I'm evaluating the bomb from
I'm evaluating the bomb from a solo perspective. You don't need shock if you're 2-3 shotting stuff.
Also, as I expected the SSB gets RJ to phase 2 fast enough but once you're in the invulnerable spin phase damage gets really spotty. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you don't. In fact, that's probably the theme of shard bombs. If you look at my clear videos above you'll notice that the SSB completely whiffs on some of the explosions. There are really only three scenarios with SSB. You either hit stuff for pitiful damage, you hit stuff for massive damage (rare) or you completely miss. I rather have a bomb that hits hard every single time.
- Video: SSB vs RJ
Phase 2 can either go well if you get lucky and he lands on multiple bombs that you placed while he was still spinning. Shard bombs have this weird disconnect where you're playing from behind. It's like playing the game at 4000ms latency and phase 2 really highlights this. There is really nothing you can do except drop bombs and hope he spins and lands where you placed them. (Bomb drop to outer-ring explosion is 4 seconds. His vulnereable state is 7 seconds so you get whatever you placed before he stopped spinning and then 1 more explosion MAX)
Is SSB the best shard bomb? I'd say so. The shock makes it actually usable compared to the other shard bombs that are much more chaotic. You can lock down enemies and circle around them hitting them 2x every time. The problem I have is that hitting something 2x barely out damages (and doesn't really out DPS) a bomb with NO bonus damage. How does that make sense?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:38
#8
Before: Yes.
Now : No.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:45
#9
The pure shadow bomb may get better after applying trinkets/bombastic/mad bomber. Higher base damage = higher bonus increase.
Indeed, who needs shock when you can simply kill right away. But i cant test it.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:04
#10
@Eeks
In the solo-bomber regard I agree with your assessment. I don't find soloing very interesting (and wiping due to an unlucky lagspike less so), so I didn't consider it.
I have completely unrelated questions!
In your first video, when you use the BAB, the mini jellies are instantly destroyed even though it took three Nitros kill them. There aren't even damage numbers! What's the deal with that? Does it work in larger parties? Would it work in Ice Queen Palace?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:25
#11
Juances
The pure shadow bomb
- Juances
The pure shadow bomb may get better after applying trinkets/bombastic/mad bomber. Higher base damage = higher bonus increase.
The DMB does do more damage. At D21 the SSB does 165 damage while the 4* DMB does 166 damage w/ max damage bonus. I can't test it either though; I've already gotten burned 3 times on this bomb series and have zero interest in pursuing this any further. I do have the DCB (ele) and assuming the shadow version does the same base damage it'd be something like this:
DEP BOM INI SEC
D22 DCB 157 200
D22 SSB 157 179
D25 DCB 181 230
D25 SSB 181 206
While low damage is an issue with these bombs, it isn't the only problem and just buffing the damage isn't going to solve everything and make these good IMO.
As far as the other series go, I'd DEFINITELY recommend the splinter bomb over SSS. Stun is terrible which makes SSS unusable against stuff like trojans. (They do their charge attack which hits you before the animation even starts and is 100% unavoidable). For shadow it's a toss up. Shock is probably more team-friendly but the damage is ~10.5% less (on shard explosion only).
- Aplauses
Before: Yes.
Now : No.
I disagree. The SSB is probably better than the ISB used to be. The charge time on the old ISB was ridiculously long.
Sun, 08/12/2012 - 01:25
#12
Processing Thoughts of You Always
@Aplauses: What?
The old ISB was pants at killing jellies. It was split pierce/normal, not to mention it took ages to use in the first place.
People only ever used it as a gag weapon...
@Eeks: Thanks for the post, I wasn't sure how the shards would fly with all the minis around. It seems the bomb does an excellent job of keeping the floor clear of minis, what with the multiple explosions and Shock status... I'll probably end up getting one myself.
Actually, I've heard fairly good things about the new Shocking Salt Bomb. It should do well on slimes, and is certainly a big improvement on the old ISB. However, there is one issue with all the new shard bombs - the shards have an unfortunate tendency to disappear completely if you place them too close to objects or enemies. In normal Clockworks this wouldn't be too much of a problem, but in the last level of RJP I suspect that the large number of minis may prevent some of the shards from appearing, decreasing the bomb's damage.
I would say it's worth a try, at least, but since I haven't managed to craft one for testing yet I can't definitively say how effective the bomb would be in such crowded conditions.