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Strange behaviour - why does cradle hate us?

17 replies [Last post]
Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:54
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio

While there are many thing within the Clockwork that irritate me, there have been two things that are just out of place:

  • Why do the inhabitants of Cradle get along with each other?
  • What are they doing on that specific floor?

The first one does not just include Wolvers and Chromalisks not eating each other, but further question,why the hell is there a Gremlin among a pack of bloodthirsty Wolvers healing them? If there was some kind of backstory, where Gremlins actually have farms where they breed savage beast, then that would be another story, but right now, this makes no sense. Also, Gremlins don't look like farmers to me. Which also sparks the question, what do all these races eat? Appearently not each other, so what else is left?
Further more, the Gremlins sustained great facilities to produce weapons and the constructs we fight today, but long before the Isorans ever set foot on the planet - what where they defending against? Maybe the Swarm, but given that it's influence is very restricted one may doubt it.
Also, the phenomenon of Cradle races getting along is not limited to beasts, but also to our friends; except for the Wall around Haven, there seems to be nothing in the means of the Strangers that they could use to protect themselfs. The wall doesn't even have door they could close. I'd say that's due to the fact, that it's not for actual defence, but rather to keep the city clean from monster feces.

The second point is, why is there anyone on that specific floor? While it may seem self-explanatory, this goes beyond the simple why is there a Gel in a Gremlin facility. Sure, that alone is a thing that has to be explained, but there is more: Why are there sentinent beings like Gremlins scattered about a floor where there is absolutly nothing of relevance? What purpose do the immovable Battlepods serve if they are placed within Gremlin territory? Why do they pose such a threat to us that we have to destroy them in missions, if they obviously can't move?
...Though by now it's quite obvious that the Isoran race gets their kicks through violence and destruction... No one sends a giant flagship filled with armed soldiers just to scan some planets and maybe find some new merchant-routes.

The suggestion at this point is as simple as can be:
Give us a story. And I mean an actual story, not a mission description.
Also, make the enemys attack each other at times. Can't be we're the only ones to get all the hostility.

This is not to say, that we don't need a lot (A LOT) more story in this game, but this is a matter right at hand.

UPDATE: Why the Swarm does not explain any of this

The Gremlins are a stand alone race, not some special and deformed individuals. They formed and maintained a working social structure in which they act under orders of their superiors. Arkus was able to do nothing of this, having been driven into isolation instead. On the other hand we have Vanaduke and the Empire of Almire which most likely fell prey to the Swarm of some sorts: His madness and land share nothing with the culture of Gremlins or demons. Also there are the Emberlight Gremlins, that chose to be exiled out of their own will, interacting with other races peacefully.
Monsters grow stronger as you go deeper, true, but the same holds true for you as a knight as well, doesn't it?
Furthermore this all is not limited to the deepest depths of the Clockwork but present even on the surface. Also we still have to deal with the fact that Strangers don't seem to actively protect themselfs from any of those threats, probably even being part of the system.

Given that everything except for constructs are organic beings we would still have to explain what they eat. At least the Wolver species is somewhat verified to procreate, as there exit "cubs". Same goes for the Jelly family, that seem to have male and female individuals. Being powered by the Swarm wouldn't work then, because it would lead to an overpopulation of the planet. Infinite "food" resource, no natural predators, and, if it's the Jellys, high number of offspring. That can not work.

The Swarm could corrupt them, like it does in the Unknown Passage, but it does not explain Gremlin culture, procreation, a free will, levels close to the surface or survival and death in the Clockworks.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:58
#1
Vanillateddy's picture
Vanillateddy
Ouh Shiny

I saw more story kinda stuff
+1 I love a good story.

Gimme story!

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 19:18
#2
Toxicyoccm's picture
Toxicyoccm
Aquarium Guru Shares the Secret Tactic

MST3K mantra.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 20:26
#3
Klipik's picture
Klipik
Oh, rly?

"No one sends a giant flagship filled with armed soldiers just to scan some planets"

Halo 4, anyone? :D :D

But seriously, I think I have at least one answer: the reason Gremlins would be scattered throughout the clockworks (assuming they cannot travel freely between floors) is that when Cradle underwent its transformation into whatever it is now, everything was isolated into whatever floor it was on at the time, and remains there to this day. That said, I'm not sure why they would work together...

Another thing that could possibly happen is a rivalry between the Gremlin Clans - Tenderfoot, Ironclaw, and Darkfang. we know they all serve King Tinkinzar, but might they not have hostilities among themselves?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 21:27
#4
Echo-Twothree's picture
Echo-Twothree
^

I've seen Tenderfoot and Ironclaw gremlins in the same room before. They worked together fine.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 02:46
#5
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio
Gremlins can terraform

Gremlins are, according to lore, the builders and repairmen within the Clockwork, despite not having build the actual Clockwork.
This is somewhat explained in Mission 4-3 (2): Rescues and Recycling.
"A 'Deconstruction Zone' is a gremlin work site where gremlins seem to tear apart existing levels and use the components to build new levels. Their ability to rapidly engineer levels and machines is incredible, surpassed only by their hostility to anyone who crosses their path."

Given they can actively shape the Clockwork there shouldn't be any Gremlin forced to wander around on an isolated floor.
If someone asks me, I'd like to see something actually be deconstructed in a deconstruction zone... But that's another story.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 07:53
#6
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

The swarm, or maybe too much exposure to energy brainwash them. It makes sense.

We already know what can happens to knights (arkus). Also monsters grow stronger as you go down, closer to the core, supporting the theory of energy-induced crazyness.

Like a zombie movie. All monsters somehow know wich to kill.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 09:40
#7
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio
Not really

While I respect that to be enough for many, it doesn't make sense if you look further into it.
The Gremlins are a stand alone race, not some special and deformed individuals. They formed and maintained a working social structure in which they act under orders of their superiors. Arkus was able to do nothing of this, having been driven into isolation instead. On the other hand we have Vanaduke and the Empire of Almire which most likely fell prey to the Swarm: His madness and land share nothing with the culture of Gremlins or demons. Also there are the Emberlight Gremlins, that chose to be exiled out of their own will, interacting with other races peacefully.
Monsters grow stronger as you go deeper, true, but the same holds true for you as a knight as well, doesn't it?
Furthermore this all is not limited to the deepest depths of the Clockwork but present even on the surface. Also we still have to deal with the fact that Strangers don't seem to actively protect themselfs from any of those threats, probably even being part of the system.

Given that everything except for constructs are organic beings we would still have to explain what they eat. At least the Wolver species is somewhat verified to procreate, as there exit "cubs". Same goes for the Jelly family, that seem to have male and female individuals. Being powered by the Swarm wouldn't work then, because it would lead to an overpopulation of the planet. Infinite "food" resource, no natural predators, and, if it's the Jellys, high number of offspring. That can not work.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect OOO to create an entire working ecosystem, though that would be nice. But it should make at least a tiny little bit of sense. The Swarm could corrupt them, like it does in the Unknown Passage, but it does not explain Gremlin culture, procreation, a free will, levels close to the surface or survival and death in the Clockworks.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 10:57
#8
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
Monsters vs Monsters

a few games (DOOM and others) sometimes the monsters get angry at each other and kill eah other sometimes. I would like that.
The only brute who does kill its own is the Trojan but they were ex soldiers so i dont know.
WE NEED A STORY! not fan art comis but A ACTUAL STORYLINE!

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 12:33
#9
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Oh, another crazy idea. Since monsters arent actually living, they only seem to 'pop up' when we walk into a room, we could say they are actually being summoned to fight by a greater force.

Finding excuses on a ficitonal universe is easy.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 16:08
#10
Dreathuxy's picture
Dreathuxy
if youre out there...

Luguriu please comment on this. We need your wisdom.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 17:01
#11
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

This is a little too minor for my interests.

The lore of this game has a lot of plot gaps which allow the creativity if its player base to come up with their own explanations. For example, I took the existing pieces of storyline this game has and added my own disturbed ideas in this to transform the innocent story to something which has probably made some people cry at night. The hollow storyline of the game allows people/maniacs like you and I to be creative though there are many who would rather have the world in a bubble.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 20:05
#12
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

All enemies are under the influence of the swarm to a small degree through the crystals- which is evidenced by the existance of trojans.

Imagine this- the Isoran's turn into trojans, because they bring themselves into contact with the minerals for extended amounts of time. Their power comes from the mineral that they were carrying, as that is what you're attacking on their back to kill them. The gremlins/wolvers don't carry minerals, but they still become corrupted by it as they're around it for a long enough time.

There are plenty of plot holes though- like why we didn't just rev arkus and then force him onto the elevator to go back up to Haven? If he can energy rev to fight us again, couldn't he just have gone back to Haven?

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 21:11
#13
Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
@Luguiru (Lugnut)

I have yet to read your piece... but I'll do it for science. Upon a brief skim I noticed a few encounters, an insane knight, and a few other things... but I will have to save reading the whole for another date.

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 04:04
#14
El-Odio's picture
El-Odio
As I said already said

The Swarm explains nothing. Look for what I already wrote.

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 05:04
#15
Bugtester's picture
Bugtester
+1

Game needs a lot more story. like, really much more. and some sense

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 05:16
#16
Kraanx's picture
Kraanx
True, dat. the only monsters

True, dat. the only monsters that dont seem to get along are lichens.
but some of it makes sense. quicksilvers could be used by gremlins as electricity generators for the IMF.
About strangers: think about it. even before we landed, monsters on the surface were really weak. Razwog & co. only appeared at an isoran resuce camp, to steal a power source. All the attacks (or attempts) on haven started when we arrived and started delving into the clockworks
Also, do you have spiralspy? try to see a stranger running. its scary.
What i think i understand about gremlins and their defenses is that emberlight was probably a group of gremlins that blamed tinky for creating the swarm, and so decided to gtfo. they built machines as a resistance, so they wouldnt lose numbers of their own, and the loyal gremlins built constructs for the same purpose or perhaps to destroy the swarm.(but they both suck at it, have you ever seen a fully built mecha knight or retrode? lawl).
as for existance, cradle is a bunch of patched-up (or gremlin-built) worlds as a shield designed to protect the core. gremlins sometimes inspect certain areas, such as arenas or decon zones, but seemingly only with species stupid enough not to understand what happened to their planets or stupid enough to attack anything. (not devilites or undead).
As for reproduction: idk what wolvers eat. maybe (warning: wierd theory ahead) they dont have to eat. cradle's massive energy output in the atmosphere allows them to recive energy directly from breathing, instead of having to extract it out of food. this allows existance, but not healing ( or energy for reproduction, slime-wise), so wolvers still might have to take a bite out of something, that explains while they still bite.

i might add something later, gtg now

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 07:18
#17
Bugtester's picture
Bugtester
I can answer most of that

Even if the monsters on the surface are weak they are still monsters. The strangers on the other side don't seem to have any defence despite that. And Basil even travels the Clockwork with just his backpack
Emberlight is a tiny coloney, the gremlin empire however is so vast we have yet to meet 8 of the 9 crimson order leaders and the king, so its unlikely that they are responsible for any constructs in the clockwork. I do think that Tinkinzar might have something to do with the swarm as well, though. maybe he's corrupted as well and that's the reason for all the defence machines?

El-Odio wrote: "Being powered by the Swarm wouldn't work then, because it would lead to an overpopulation of the planet. Infinite "food" resource, no natural predators, and, if it's the Jellys, high number of offspring. That can not work." Energy form the Core wouldn't work than either becus the planet would have been filled with animals before we even landed there. Something similar happend in australia as far as I know, where animals have been imported. Without predators and with so much food they literally took over the ecosystem.

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