Spiral Knights - Make us care about the story

Make us care about the story

32 replies [Last post]

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 13:26

Kive

After taking a moment and thinking, I've realized that I don't care about the story in spiral knights. I thought maybe it was because I wanted to get to the game faster. I realized that's not it the game just doesn't make you want to care and doesn't make the plot a pivotal point. I skipped through all the dialog in those inforing missions and don't even look at the computers or other dialog things in the danger missions. I think OOO needs to improve this and make me and a lot of other players care again.

Voice acting

The first and most obvious idea is to add voice overs/ voice acting. That way I wont be having to stop what Im doing and read through a wall of text.Think about how much this would clarify what you are doing in the danger missions. Of course Im not sure it would be in Three rings budget to hire some good voice actors. I think this should be played around maybe added onto the test servers and gauge the negative and positive reactions.

Make NPCs Useful

I realized that the knights who assist you in this game are like robots. They have infinite life and don't do much damage, and look extremely generic. The only difference between these and the robots is that they don't shock you.

Why not make memorable characters with wacky quirks, AI styles, and unique armor. These knights should be there to help and fight along side you not be a hindrance. It would be much more memorable if you have a squad of weak knights with their own quirks and in the further missions they get better armour stronger, and smarter. Let these characters talk (in text) during the battles at scripted moments (side note: the text size of dialog like the develites needs to be increased). These characters shouldn't be boring give them a personality like jokes, the way they speak, anything that will make this character distinct and likable.

I feel OOO has some potential to make these good characters, like the shock guy who is normally at the campsite near the end of the level. OOO needs to flesh out these old characters and make some new exciting ones.

people like The- Rawr Cake have said similar things

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/65481

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 14:12

Luguiru

Voice acting would be out of place if there were only voiceovers for the introduction, though going beyond that would get costly or very silly depending on how the voices are done; not that derp voices would be bad, but it might give off the wrong impression to players. Not everyone appreciates having characters being people instead of two dimensional characters; which brings us to the next point, improving relations with NPCs, especially the ones in the Hall. There could be a "mentor NPC" system where you can ask about that "class" and their equipment, but that would only work if "class" diversity were viable in this game. That means balancing equipment. That means Three Rings giving a cup of liquids about equipment balance. Maybe when HL3 comes out.

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 14:48

Kive

@luguiru

Voice acting could greatly improve the game. I do agree that they'd have to go about it right , maybe just a cutscene in comic book style would help overall with the story. As for OOO not caring about balances, I agree and Disagree they have made great leaps in balancing over this year with much needed buffs to guns, troika, and bombs( although the salt bomb nerf was a bit harsh). Half life 3 or Half life episode 3 will come out eventually.

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 15:16

Softhead

No voice acting.

Does not fit with this game.

Did ye know that Vana was to have a voice actor and speak?

They scrapped it becuase it didn't fit.

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 17:04

Darkbrady

I'd just like to point out

I'd just like to point out that before the missions system was introduced, the story was virtually non-existent, living only in the NPC dialogue text boxes.

The introduction of the mission system could have just been missions here and there, but they made a huge effort to implement the story in it as well, and have since improved and increased the amount of explanation and dialogue towards it; there's far more to find out now than there ever was before.

Point is, they already did what you're asking, and it's your own damn fault for skipping it all. You don't get to ignore the story then complain that you don't care enough about it and whine that it's their fault.

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 17:51

Teh-Rawrcake

Lore. More interesting

Lore. More interesting NPCs.

Yes people want this.

Sat, 09/29/2012 - 18:13

Glittertind

Loving a good read.

I support the more backstory and more story in general idea. I think Spi Kni has potential for a lot of cool lore and backstories to characters. Just too bad this isn't done over night. I love to read and get deep into the story, hell, I've read almost every Halo book just because I found the story so fascinating, and I think Spi Kni easily could have filled many of it's cracks with exciting (back-)stories.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 07:24

Fehzor

I'd much rather they tell the story through scenario rooms than through voice acting and cut scenes etc. The devs work relatively slowly, and I'd like all of their effort where it counts- in implementing new things for us to fight and fixing the existing items before moving on towards making even more stuff to fight and even more new items.

Similarly, I'd rather there be emphasis on the players rather than the NPCs. The players should be relying on each other to learn how to properly manage their health/energy/etc. And the NPCs, no matter how well programmed, will still suck. Improving their AI will make them more useful, maybe, but they'll still disrupt the otherwise natural balance that is solo game play. Enemies target them, and unless their AI can be programmed SERIOUSLY well, you're going to have to deal with strange enemy patterns that are "off" from what you're doing. Kind of like when you let T1/2 players party with you.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 08:18

The-Rawrcake

I think that we have gotten

I think that we have gotten plenty of new content and, honsetly this might sound odd, but...

I think it'd be best to have no more new content for a while at least. They've made plenty, and now they need to touch up their game. Fixing existing items, as you said Fehzor, is a main one.

Improving the game's environment and the story will make it look better and be more appealing to play.

"Point is, they already did what you're asking, and it's your own damn fault for skipping it all. You don't get to ignore the story then complain that you don't care enough about it and whine that it's their fault."

We never said "add a story". We understand that there is one, and we didn't "skip it all". We just said it would be nice for them to improve it. You must not have played very many different video games, Darkbrady, or you would understand that this one's story is indeed lacking. NPCs are also fairly mundane.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 09:56

Misty-Wellington

@Atrumvindex

"Did ye know that Vana was to have a voice actor and speak?"

In my head I imagine Vanaduke having a British accent, perhaps somewhere along the lines of being aristocratic. It strangely goes well with the grunting he does before a mace attack.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 14:33

#10

Darkbrady

We never said "add a story".

My point wasn't that there is a lofty story already, as I can agree that I'd like to see the story advanced myself. My point was that if you played before the missions update (and I know at least you did, Rawr, idk about the OP) but the story was barely existent at all. Now at least, it has been improved.

It's not that they made it perfect, but my point is that they are improving it, and adding onto it. And you still get threads complaining that there's not enough.

If this post were made a year and a half down the line of the update and there were still no changes, then I'd get it, but so soon after they just did what he's already asking? It's like asking for a major game update 2 months after they implement one. MMOs don't evolve that quickly, patience is key. Enjoy what you have until you get more, don't just sit and be unhappy about what you don't have.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 17:57

#11

Skyguarder

No voice acting

Some of our mics are messed up. Sometimes people mute their speakers all the time, so maybe there isn't a point on putting a speaker to enemies. :p

But sometimes, maybe only bosses can talk.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 18:29

#12

Severage

I can see it now...

*Knights appear on the scene.*

Vanaduke: "..."

Knights: We have come to end your unholy reign!

Vanaduke: "And so..we shall go to war!"

~Sev

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:31

#13

Kive

Most misunderstood

Im not asking for a new story better story or anything just Improve what already exist. I was saying I skipped the story not purposefully but I just didnt find it interesting and worthwhile. Im not saying " Im lazy I dont want to read HERP DERP". Thats beyond the truth, there are many text based games like chrono triger and final fantasies from the SNES era that were amazing and I wanted to read, I loved reading it was exciting. This game has no interesting or worthwhike reasons to really read the story. I am not neccesarily saying voice acting is the way to go but it could possibly help.

I want for people to honestly say did they care about or get excited from seeing NPCs, most people will say no. The NPCs mainly serve as people who give information out,thats it. These characters are boring , they need an identity. For the person who said story wasn't here until the missions were introduced is right to some degree. There were NPCs who told you what you needed to do.Either way people need to stop acting like Im attacking Spiral Knights, the story isnt perfect and needs to be improved , constructive criticism is never a bad thing.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 19:48

#14

Darkbrady

just Improve what already

just Improve what already exist

Read my previous posts.

Constructive criticism isn't a bad thing, but when they improve the story vastly from what it was, and you immediately jump to complaining that they didn't do a good enough job...well, although you may be right, but they at least tried, and have shown that they're willing to keep working on it.

S'all I'm sayin', here.

Sun, 09/30/2012 - 20:08

#15

Luguiru

Fanfictions sometimes expand what exists of the lore.

Except the times where the author just focuses on some generic hero killing stuff and winning whatever while the few characters the author cares about are barely or never developed for readers to give a flamingo. Who do they think they are, Michael Bay?

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:23

#16

Blandaxt

knights

giving some of the knights u meet throughout the story that help you fight different look like a different armor, different weapons and show that there armor and weapons improve as the story progresses is a good idea. just keep the damage they take out the same and give them an actual dialogue when u meet them and when you leave them as you approach the elevator. right now, they seem completely the same as the helper robots, just a different skin (which is exactly what they are. :) )

Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:29

#17

Jrhuman

Maybe not voiceovers for

Maybe not voiceovers for dialogue, but perhaps little 'meeps' (akin to LoZ) would be entertaining, and enough to give us a general idea of what they may sound like :D

The strangers do this ("Sunny G?") but I think itd also be relevant for the rest of the cast

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 18:44

#18

Shazic

Vanaduke

(Pre battle, Normal)

Vanaduke (in deep voice): So..... The time has finally come. The knights have arrived to pit themselves against my power, and take my kingdom.

You (You do the voice acting! =D): The Spiral Knights have no need to fight you Vanaduke! Surrender, and you will live.

Vanaduke: HA!! I laugh at your foolish attempt, to threaten me! See this mace? This mace once belonged to my father, who was slain before my own eyes. He will not die in vain!

You: You leave us no choice then, Vanaduke.

Vanaduke: Come then, Spiral dogs! See if you can best me in combat!

(Post Battle)

Vanaduke: What!? NOO!! How can this be!? I..... cannot lose!

You: Your tyranny is over, Vanaduke.

Vanaduke: Do not this is over, young one. Like a phoenix, I will rise again, and have my vengeance! (turns to dust)

You: (thinking) Could he really rise again?

(Pre battle, Shadow Lair)

Darkfire Vanaduke (in slightly higher voice, with demonic echoes): Stay away! STAY AWAY!

You: Vanaduke? What happened to you?

Darkfire Vanaduke: The Swarm..... so much feeding...... no control....

You: (thinking) So the swarm managed to get him too. Just how powerful is the swarm?

Darkfire Vanaduke: Face me, knights!!

(Post battle)

Darkfire Vanaduke (in normal deep voice): I feel.... free.... the curse.... was lifted? The swarm.... powerful... can't..... be controlled.... corruption.... (turns to dust)

You: The swarm has become very powerful. Something must be done to stop it.

These are just suggestions. the voice actting idea is great, it would really add depth to the game.

Tue, 10/02/2012 - 23:31

#19

Softhead

@Shazic

Please no.

Something akin to post #17's or Rayman Origins(Backslang...)

But none of that for sk, doesn't fit.

Wed, 10/03/2012 - 19:22

#20

Kive

interesting

Seems people are suggesting inaudible talking akin to animal crossing.That overall sounds good would be a whole lot cheaper to implement .

I also think Three rings should drill down on real time dialog by making it easier to read with bigger font and more of a key role in the game.

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 16:42

#21

Yorha

Voice acting?

I don't think so, I don't want my character to sound like some kid when I have a deep voice, doesn't fit the game

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 17:18

#22

Darkbrady

And ofc, no one's mentioned

And ofc, no one's mentioned gender, yet...

Thu, 10/04/2012 - 22:49

#23

Softhead

Good Day Gents.

SHHH!

Also, no voice acting for the main character.

Ruins the feel of getting into that role.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 05:28

#24

Blandaxt

hmm

like the dialogue post #18, but it wont be an actual voice lol. also lol, this is a stupid sugestion, but ill say as alternative cheap voice. three rings could use the computer voice helper to do all of its voices if they dont ant any voice. the big problem with this is that it would sound really terrible.

Fri, 10/05/2012 - 11:27

#25

Darkbrady

it would sound really

it would sound really terrible

Thaat's the reason why voice ating isn't ever likely to be implemented. No matter how amazing they might think it sounds, or even half the population, the risk is far too great of the other half the population absolutely hating it and thinking it ruins the style. Keeping no voice acting keeps everyone happy (let's face it; voice acting alone won't improve the story, that's basically just being too lazy to read the text. It's akin to asking for accessories; won't change much in the grand scheme)~

Sun, 10/07/2012 - 10:04

#26

Blandaxt

i agree!

then lets at least let the helper knights have a dialogue as you progress through that one level. when we meet them, their dialogue disapears so fast, its like they were just robots and are not even there to help. just there to bother u. rarely do they get the attention of monsters and help u kill a trojan for example.

Sun, 10/07/2012 - 15:55

#27

Keyboard

Rhendon +1

I miss Rhendon :c
Ever since Razwog, I never saw saw Rhendon again :'(

He's a good NPC.

Sun, 10/07/2012 - 20:09

#28

Kive

@darkbrady

Dude calm down..... Look at the top of this page... What does it say? Im not trying to say Im to lazy to read make voice acting Im saying the story isn't interesting and not much makes me want too read it. Yes three rings added a story with he mission system. But was it any good? Honestly rate it on a scale of 1/10

There is a game called Borderlands, it had a story. Only problem is it wasn't interesting and not many people cared for it. So Gearbox (the developer) took the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism for working on Borderlands 2. If you play the first then the second you'll realize the huge improvements they've made. I encourage you to get both games their quite good , especially if you have some friends to play online with.

Sun, 10/07/2012 - 20:02

#29

Darkbrady

My last post was just a

My last post was just a comment on why voice acting isn't likely *shrug*

Sun, 10/07/2012 - 20:15

#30

Kive

@darkbrady

Sorry misenterpritation you said "Thats basically being to lazy to read" which made me think you didnt understand what this forum was about. You responded quickly so you mustve seen my message in pre edited form xD my phone and the forum don't go well together.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 17:50

#31

Theozai

as long as were on the subject of voices

OOO's seems to be a fan of games like Zelda and Bomberman, and while those games may have both possessed silent protagonists, the other characters did have a voice, they were just voice acted "differently". In link, and in Okami, characters make "noises" that imply there feeling and sound of their voice, your mind does the rest. In okami, it was done in sort of an annoying way for certain characters but none the less, it got the point across.

ultimately, what made both okami, and link successful with their story telling, was that when you talked to NPCs, it wasn't at a static angle with two characters at the bottom, exchanging dialogue. It was the camera, panning in and out on the characters talking, showing you that they had something important to say, often moving their body to suggest their body language and the tone. it was the camera, not being stuck over you in 3rd person like it normally is, and was instead in the face of other characters at eye level.

story telling elements in games benefit from the same elements and principles they do in movies in cinema, with the exception of the fact that in the game, you can make the story interactive.

That said, I could go on a huge discourse on story telling in gaming to fit the narrative, but Spiral Knights has already been made, so all they can do at this point is add to it in a way that compliments it.

*I feel, they should add cutscenes to the missions (comparible to cutscenes in 3rd person RPG games). they can be set cutscenes that don't change, but if they really want to capitalize on cutscenes, they will want to add the players character models into the cutscenes as well, and that way, sort of reward people for personalizing their character with cool accessories.

This would take a lot of work if they did it, and I'm sure it would be met with huge success in improving the games story telling elements as a whole. That said, they already did a lot with the last patch that added missions to begin with, so they would need to work on this either steps at a time, or make one big patch that doesn't come until spring of next year or something if they got started on it right now. they wouldn't need a lot of voice actors, most of the work would be setting up stages and scripted scenes where the animators make the character models move differently then normal. the writing would need some reworking done though.

anyway, this is one solid idea they could try to implement in the future, but anything they do to enhance the story at this point is gonna take time and money. not to say it wouldn't be well worth it for them to consider applying it.

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 01:25

#32

Shadow-Knightxx

the core

the core is sealed

YAY SPIRAL KNIGHTS CANT GET HOME :)

WE DONT KNOW A SINGLE THING ABOUT SK PLANET

Search

Make us care about the story