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Way to revive Arcade and Clockworks

13 replies [Last post]
Fri, 10/12/2012 - 06:10
Dendios's picture
Dendios

I remember that in Luguiru "Branching , Balancing etc.. " thread , that there was a T4 idea , but as I remember it was the same as normal CW with the following :

* Harder monsters

* Less loot and heat

* Did I forgot something ?

So , just to make this idea more exciting and to be effective in reviving the Arcade I suggest the following editing on it :

1) "T4 Gate" or I want to name it "Arenas Gate"

* Add a new gate to the Arcade , which can be entered ONLY from the Arcade ( This is for reviving the arcade )

* This gate is only accessed by T3 players only

* This gate will include depths from 18 ( emberlight ) - 29 ( core )

* All depths will be arenas = Total of 9 arenas ( I will give details later )
________________________________________

2) Crowns and Heat

* First problem of this "Arena Gate" will be the : Grinding , Abusing .

a) To avoid Grinding : In T3 runs , each depths gives an average of 1.1k ( Differs if it is Arena : 2k atleast || Graveyard 1k-1.5k || Deconstruction Zones 500 - 900 )

So if we make the 9 arenas loot be the same as it is in T3 , it will give in the range of = 2500*9 = 22.5k So the average of all 9 arenas will be 20k-22k

Halve the Loot of each arena to 2500 / 2 = 1250 cr , now multiply to get the amount of total cr of the run 1250*9 = 11.2k cr average = 9k-11k

b) To avoid Abusing : This gate will be accessed only once in the day ( Invites from friends is acceptable , but once will be enough for most people I think )

________________________________________

3) Monsters

I admit that monsters in CW and missions are turning very easy after the loads of buffs for us and nerfs for them . I am not good in calculating damage and these things , but in general the damage and hitpoints of the monsters will be increased to make it more challenging for Endgame players . The damage of the knights "us" will be the same as in SL or leave it as it is in T3 to make it harder .

________________________________________

4) Recycling

This gate will be available all the time , no need for minerals to open each depths . It will be a separated gate in the Arcade which can be entered only from the Arcade itself . Only thing that will be recycled is the themes of each arena .

________________________________________

I welcome all suggestions and correcting if I was wrong in anything :D ( Especially the "Crown and Heat" section )

~~ Xxdragneel

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 06:48
#1
Summer-Rainbowz's picture
Summer-Rainbowz
Nice

Nice ideea drag +1

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 07:06
#2
Draycos's picture
Draycos

'Arenas only' sounds like an okay idea... but it'd just end up being a grindy kitefest if we're talking about standard, circular arenas.

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 10:03
#3
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances
False assumptions

-Only accesed to T3 players
-Only once per day

Just because you decide to throw it physically into the Arcade doesnt mean it'll change anything. Clockworks will remain dead.
Only this tiny portion will be populated. It doesnt change the status of the rest against missions. It's not even related, just a completely seperated gate.

Putting it there or as a mission would have the same effect :p

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 10:24
#4
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

Just because I do other things for a while does not mean I am dead.

You forgot the part where all families get resistances to at least one effect of one weapon type, most families get at least one new enemy, all families get a significant ability, no floor maps on the HUD, the majority of loot comes from completing puzzles which require certain weapons to open, no bosses, and no floor map series which can be checked before or while in the system. You go in blind, you have no HUD map, and you have to navigate through puzzle after puzzle to get those precious crowns while being hunted by everything around you.

" "T4 Gate" or I want to name it "Arenas Gate" "

I was going to call it "Unexplored Territory" or something along the lines of that, seeing as we already have knights throughout the existing tiers. Why arenas? The idea is to have completely unpredictable maps.

"Add a new gate to the Arcade , which can be entered ONLY from the Arcade ( This is for reviving the arcade )"

It may revive the T4+ gate, but since it would be separate from the existing tier system it would need its own changes. The point of T4+ is to create a new challenge without just throwing little missions every couple weeks.

"This gate is only accessed by T3 players only"

I thought that was implied, but completely correct in the context. I probably forgot to mention that in my overview.

"This gate will include depths from 18 ( emberlight ) - 29 ( core )"

Actually, if you pay attention thoroughly enough, maps throughout the Arcade are the same; sometimes there are maps which only appear in certain tiers, but for the most part a lot of maps are recycled. You probably mean those special maps in T3, but those are pretty specific to where they already exist.

"All depths will be arenas = Total of 9 arenas ( I will give details later )"

This is where we have a problem.

Arenas are just tight spaces with crowded rooms. They also tend to have high payouts and predictable patterns. The idea behind T4+, or at least my ideas for it, are to use standard maps for combat zones (optional paths lead to those treasure zones) which players are familiar with, against enemies which may appear familiar, but have new tricks to play with and new friends to kill us. Using arenas would be too beneficial for sword users, force gunners to use kiting and offense weapons (meaning less support tactic reliance), and bombs forced to spam mindlessly in those tight spaces.

Also, though I probably never specifically detailed it, T4+ does not have a specific amount of floors. You go for ten floors, get a break room (part of the reward system which is still in progress) then repeat. Floor maps are random, the dominant family on the floor is random, and the dead was going on all around. There is no end point and the floor count never gets higher because there is no floor count as t he existing tier system has.

"To avoid Grinding : In T3 runs , each depths gives an average of 1.1k ( Differs if it is Arena : 2k atleast || Graveyard 1k-1.5k || Deconstruction Zones 500 - 900 )"
"So if we make the 9 arenas loot be the same as it is in T3 , it will give in the range of = 2500*9 = 22.5k So the average of all 9 arenas will be 20k-22k"
"Halve the Loot of each arena to 2500 / 2 = 1250 cr , now multiply to get the amount of total cr of the run 1250*9 = 11.2k cr average = 9k-11k"
"To avoid Abusing : This gate will be accessed only once in the day ( Invites from friends is acceptable , but once will be enough for most people I think )"

Seeing as around 75% of the crowns per floor (again, supposed to be in the reward system which is still in progress) are behind puzzles which require certain weapons to activate, unless you do those payouts would be incredibly low. However, you will get something else for your trouble which trumps the need for copious crowns which is also part of the reward system which has not been posted yet. Hold your liquids.

Limiting how often people can enter T4+ is possible, but not only once a day. I would give it two or three times a day, though you can go through infinite floors anyway as long as you have the energy.

"I admit that monsters in CW and missions are turning very easy after the loads of buffs for us and nerfs for them . I am not good in calculating damage and these things , but in general the damage and hitpoints of the monsters will be increased to make it more challenging for Endgame players . The damage of the knights "us" will be the same as in SL or leave it as it is in T3 to make it harder ."

This is another place we differ.

In my T4+ stuff, I never mention increased health and damage counts as increased difficulty; which is why I gave each family at least one special ability to give it an advantage. Sure, more health makes things last a little longer, and more damage makes every hit count for more, but that is not where difficulty comes from.

"This gate will be available all the time , no need for minerals to open each depths . It will be a separated gate in the Arcade which can be entered only from the Arcade itself . Only thing that will be recycled is the themes of each arena ."

Yes to open availability and minerals not being part of it, no to using arenas for floors.

Your ideas are to take my ideas, use none of what makes it difficult and unique, apply some generic fake difficulties, then call it your idea. Alright. Not going to add it to my index or as a reference because this is completely different, but whatever.

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 11:17
#5
Addisond's picture
Addisond
Lol, no. You're just

Lol, no. You're just suggesting that we have an arena-only gate. Do you know how stale that would be? And if you're trying to make this game hard by throwing millions of arenas at me, it won't work. Arenas aren't hard if you know how to play them ('cept devilites...). Superficial increases in health and damage merely make this last a bit longer, and you can keep increasing damage until it is frustratingly boring, but no one wants that. In most levels, experienced players will have no trouble defeating monsters that have twice as much health or damage. Arenas shouldn't be the only challenging thing in this game, anyway; I want to be able to run a variety of levels in a random t3 run and be challenged by that. Danger missions contain excellent design, but they aren't integrated into the clockworks, so there's no continuity to them.

Also, t3 levels are around 800cr. It varies pretty heavily by stratum. Though in reality I don't see the harm in introducing another vana-esque grindable set of levels.

@lug

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. >.> why does that matter?

4. He's saying that it goes through the full stretch of t3 and nothing else, not that the levels there are from the t3 models.

5. Arenas would get so freaking stale... so yeah, agreed.

6. Say what? Lug, he's not using your idea, he's making his own that he chose to write when he saw yours.

7. Well, a little health increase couldn't hurt, but we'd rather have real difficulty increases.

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 12:08
#6
Dendios's picture
Dendios
Hmm...

@Little-Juances : Do you have any idea to revive the arcade ? I thought that this gate "might" diverse the attention of ( Endgame and Newbies ) to the arcade and CW because it is only available through arcade and not mission log . I know that arenas is easy with proper gear , so I was thinking of removing the changing gear at each depth how about it ? And we can implement Luguiru's idea of monsters having new special abilities .

@Luguiru : Just to clarify something , this idea came to me not from Luguiru's thread in first place ( Although I put the difficulties according to your thread. I didn't add them all because I am suggesting arenas here ) . I was doing a CW run with a friend and we imagined if there was a gate for arenas only . So you can delete the T4 idea and make it just a new gate for arenas ( Not T4 , I apologize for this and thanks for giving me the idea of raising the difficulty )

I want to ask something , what do you mean by :"Your ideas are to take my ideas, use none of what makes it difficult and unique, apply some generic fake difficulties, then call it your idea. Alright. Not going to add it to my index or as a reference because this is completely different, but whatever" ?

1. I didn't ask you to put it in your thread
2. I only took two things from your thread : ( The amount of cr and heat , raising difficutly ) . And as I corrected up , this is not T4 ! I just got inspired from it but it is "Arena Gate"
______________________

Note : I also support the idea that T4 becomes "Unexplored Territory" , how about making the map like in Unknown Passage and make as you stated new templates that we didn't counter in normal CW . And about saying that HP makes it longer , it does but it also make them longer to kill which give them a chance to damage us + raising the amount of their damage => won't that make it harder ?

~~ Xxdragneel

Fri, 10/12/2012 - 12:16
#7
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Well liquids

"I was doing a CW run with a friend and we imagined if there was a gate for arenas only"

So instead of trying to copy me, the idea came from you wanting to grind out crowns faster.

Makes more sense.

"about saying that HP makes it longer , it does but it also make them longer to kill which give them a chance to damage us + raising the amount of their damage => won't that make it harder ?"

Sometimes it would, but overall the difference would depend on how much more health you would be giving things. Would everything have triple or just +20% health? Either way we would be fighting the same things, it just takes a little longer; time does not directly relate to increased chances of getting hit, it means things have more health. The enemy fights the same way and has nothing new to use against you other than more health. For example, would you say Lumbers are more difficult than Devilites because they have more health? No, Devilites fly around and throw staplers and chairs at you while Lumbers are big derps with tiny points for feet.

Sat, 10/13/2012 - 04:23
#8
Thorfinns's picture
Thorfinns
My personal view is that the

My personal view is that the arcade is bind in the circle changes of the stages..This is the unique thing of the arcade..You propose a new thing that differs from the arcade so talking about revival is wrong..We must accept that the arcade is on coma state as long as the mission system is alive(and i think it ll remain as long as the game itself is alive).Arcade=Minerals>change>play.Mission system=play the same stages over and over.I think your idea is the project shadow lair without the key...Harder monsters and stages that are available for tier 3..Sorry man your idea for revival of the arcade is not good for me..Plus we have the danger missions if we need a challenge...-1

Sat, 10/13/2012 - 05:56
#9
Dendios's picture
Dendios
Well....

@Luguiru

"So instead of trying to copy me, the idea came from you wanting to grind out crowns faster."

I didn't mention it before , bu this gate is just for FUN , not for grinding . And for god sake , I don't want to get crowns faster , I just want some FUN in CW
And I just added the difficulty settings for more appealing , but it is not the main idea . I wanted to say that this gate is for FUN purpose only not grinding .
And it seems that you didn't see "How to avoid Grinding" , even if my suggestion is weak ( Which I don't think so , because the outcome will be the same of full T3 now = about 11k ) , but that means I really don't want to grind it , otherwise I would've just started grinding stupid FSC .

@Thorfinns

"I think your idea is the project shadow lair without the key"

Can you please tell me where did I mention the word SL ( Shadow Lair ) ? It's all about arenas that is the same in CW , and only differs from other gates that it is Arena only . Please.. please read better next time. Note : I added the difficulty things just to make it more appealing as I said up there ^^^^ ( And this is not T4 !!! )

"Plus we have the danger missions if we need a challenge"

Danger missions is a challenge ?! You know what , there is no place in SK that is awful and "challenging" for me other than ( Fiendish Shock Arena O_O )
All other places are REALLY EASY after those nerfs and buffs . All Danger Missions are easy if you have the proper gear , this is to summarize DM :

1. Legion of Almire : All you need is a shadow defense set , and there is only one stats here which is stun . Snarbolax , Divine , Valkyrie , Fallen , Heavenly sets are all good for this mission .

2. Compound 42 : What do I say here , you have alot of choices to make it easy : Dragon Scale set is the best here , Divine Set with fire low on one of the pieces will give you fire immunity ( Fire from oilers and wisps only , this is what I confirmed till now ) and Shadowsun is good enough but you will need fire trinkets

3. Heart of Ice : Snarbolax is best here or Skolver , but Develities is much harder than Beasts normally . You also have Valkyrie set , but it doesn't have freeze resistance which I dont see that important ( Especially freeze )

4. Ghosts in the Machine : Divine Set or Grey Feather set . Shock is the only thing that makes GitM so hard .

Note : some Danger Rooms in CW is hard a bit , but not that challenging .

_________________________________________

Note for everyone that will read this thread : This is not T4 ( I support Luguiru's one in his thread ) , this is for fun purpose only and not grinding .

~~Xxdragneel

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 18:11
#10
Bluebrawlerneo's picture
Bluebrawlerneo
may i make a suggestion

once a week i think the rank/prestige/expansion missions should be locked and cannot be played for 24 hours. just saiyan

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 17:22
#11
Dalter's picture
Dalter
Holy hay i actually thought of something!

So what i think is the problem with this thread is that theres to much talk of limiting the game, why don't we try:

A) Make it harder, know your trying to get this point across i get it

B) Add some thing instead of taking some thing away!- you guys always talk about how you want to force people to play this new thing or feature but, if you look at say the dark harvest mission for halloween, they don't force you to play it but every one wants to because there a goal or some sort of false accomplishment that they can gain for bragging rights or self esteem. But people like it!

So all i have to say is i cant type as much as you guys so, I cant help you make the clockworks better but only to pre-occupie the masses with something involving the clockworks. But nice idea.
+1

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 17:22
#12
Dalter's picture
Dalter
Holy hay i actually thought of something!

So what i think is the problem with this thread is that theres to much talk of limiting the game, why don't we try:

A) Make it harder, know your trying to get this point across i get it

B) Add some thing instead of taking some thing away!- you guys always talk about how you want to force people to play this new thing or feature but, if you look at say the dark harvest mission for halloween, they don't force you to play it but every one wants to because there a goal or some sort of false accomplishment that they can gain for bragging rights or self esteem. But people like it!

So all i have to say is i cant type as much as you guys so, I cant help you make the clockworks better but only to pre-occupie the masses with something involving the clockworks. But nice idea.
+1

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 17:23
#13
Dalter's picture
Dalter
sry

double post :(

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