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Callahan vs. Iron Slug, mechanics?

17 replies [Last post]
Fri, 11/16/2012 - 00:53
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer

Do the Iron Slug's bullets travel faster than those of the Callahan?
Do either of their bullets travel faster than those of their predecessors?
Do they interrupt, knock back, knock down or some combination of the three?
Does one or the other have better range?
What are the properties of their charge attacks?
Does the Callahan do as much damage to neutral targets as Iron Slug does?

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 01:32
#1
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Don't take my answers as

Don't take my answers as solid fact as I don't use these guns myself, but know plenty of others who do use one/both. My knowledge of them is pretty much 2nd/3rd hand, but afaik it's correct. Am happy to be corrected by someone with first-hand experience, though.

No.
No.
Interrupt. Callahan can knockdown fiends as well.
No.
Big honkin' bullet with extra damage and splash. Knocks down the shooter. Callahan can stun.
More.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 01:22
#2
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Small correction : I am

Small correction : I am almost certain Callahan can knockdown any soft-bodied enemy, provides it deals enough damage compared to the depth. Soft-bodied enemies includes : devilites, wolvers (not alpha), zombies, most gremlins.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 01:13
#3
Lukehandkooler's picture
Lukehandkooler
Interesting I was unaware of

Interesting I was unaware of that distinction Fradow :)

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 01:20
#4
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
I wasn't sure about Callahan

I wasn't sure about Callahan (as stated in my first post about my limited knowledge) but soft-bodies apply to more than just Callahan. DBB is a prime example of a weapon that is particularly useful against soft-bodies.

Just in case you weren't aware~

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 02:55
#5
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Yup Brady, that's why I got

Yup Brady, that's why I got to that conclusion. I'd have to check with a more experienced gunners, but I assume all soft-bodied enemies have the same general mechanic (can be knockdowned provided enough damage).
And I did based that on DBB, along with lots of experience with swords (there are point when when you go deeper, they just stop to knockdown).

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 17:46
#6
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Gonna test w/ Iron Slug

I'm currently crafting an Iron Slug to test alongside my new Callahan, so I'll post the test results when I get them.

What I will test:

  • Bullet speed
  • Knockback, knockdown & interrupt
  • damage & status characteristics

Anything else you'd like me to test?

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:19
#7
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
I have both.

Do the Iron Slug's bullets travel faster than those of the Callahan?
No

Do either of their bullets travel faster than those of their predecessors?
If they follow the pattern set by all the other guns (yes, even the catalyzer lines), then yes, they should.

Do they interrupt, knock back, knock down or some combination of the three?
Callahan and Iron Slug's bullets knock down what can be knocked down (Gremlins/Wolvers/Devilites/Zombies), interrupt what can't be knocked down (Turrets [slug], Jellies [slug]) and don't knock back anything... unless you charge. The charge pushes mobile monsters back 2-3 tiles.

However, and curiously enough, the Punch gun's normal bullets have very significant knockback per shot (1-1.5 tiles).

Does one or the other have better range?
No.

What are the properties of their charge attacks?
Both charge attacks knock back their owner about 2-3 tiles, but the Callahan's can stun. No status on Iron Slug.
They are powerful enough to interrupt what normal bullets can't.

Does the Callahan do as much damage to neutral targets as Iron Slug does?
Yes, exactly the same amount.
Placeholder: Now that Guild Training Halls are a thing, I'll try to grab you some numbers from the T3 one.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:25
#8
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Does the Callahan do as much

Does the Callahan do as much damage to neutral targets as Iron Slug does?
Yes, exactly the same amount.

Must be the only weapon in the game where the normal weapon deals equal damage to the special type.

The "most balanced" norm-spc comparison just happens to be on one of the arguably worst guns in the game...thas irony for you~

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:09
#9
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Yep.

Went to GTH, and it confirms what I saw in FSC: They do the same neutral damage.

@Brady:
If you mean from the magnus line, no, they're not balanced with each other. Aside from a little more monster-compatibility, Callahan is better :<

I actually think the best normal-special balance is in the Catalyzer lines:
The Neutralizer's (normal) raw charge is stronger than Biohazard unless Biohazard poisons its target (so the special can do better, but only by chance).

ninja edit as response to post below:
bolded the text.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 02:50
#10
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Not specifically the Magnus,

Not specifically the Magnus, I meant that almost every example in the game of normal vs special on neutral targets actually has the special type outdamaging the normal. The fact that this must be the only example of a situation where the normal isn't outdamaged by the special, I find ironic purely because it's a gun that's widely considered pretty horrible.

ninja edit as response to above:
Ah, I don't have any Catas at all and have never heard anyone mention this before now~

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 11:46
#11
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane
Thinslayer

Yes, if you could please test the range of the Iron Slugs normal attack splash, that'd be great =) I am a Gomber (Gunner Bomber) so I use an electron bomb and magnus right now, so if the Iron Slug does indeed have significant splash attack from it's normal attack alone, that would pair beuatifully with my electron =)

Thanks so much!

-Styrka

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 19:30
#12
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Iron Slug

The splash damage on the Iron Slug appears to be a myth. I tested it in the training hall; I shot at individual targets packed together, shot close to targets without hitting them directly, and tested the multi-hit abilities of each bullet. There was no splash damage, at all. Only the charges had it, and the charges of both have splash damage with no discernible difference.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 03:41
#13
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
Isn't it the other way around?

The special types do less damage than the normal variant, though this is because they practically always have a status. Iron Slug vs. Callahan/DA vs. GF would be exceptions in that they don't do less damage than their counterparts, despite one also having status over the other.
And yeah, the Magnus series doesn't have a special splash attribute either; if you hit those two jellies shoulder-to-shoulder, then you hit both, like any typical Handgun splash.

Would also like to note that Callahan can Stun on normal hits, since I didn't see it mentioned.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:37
#14
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Splash

I thought the splash damage was a thing that applied to the max-range explosion of the normal shots.

I also think there's -some- splash damage on regular hits but it works weird. Like you know those 3x3 bushes you might run into in Wolver Dens? I think the bullet sometimes 'digs' in diagonally from the shot location. It's not a very intuitive splash :|

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 08:41
#15
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
The splash damage on the Iron

The splash damage on the Iron Slug appears to be a myth.
I thought the splash damage was a thing that applied to the max-range explosion of the normal shots.

You mean like when using guns to break grass patches? I was under the impression that every gun could do that, with splash damages. Having no splash damage at all would imply that Magnus' can't do this; could be something to test. If it definitely has no splash on a hit then maybe its splash is limited to a certain range threshold?

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 09:23
#16
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Nop

Alchemers actually can't break grass.
Well, maybe except for their charge attacks.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 22:30
#17
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Orite; whenever I use them to

Orite; whenever I use them to break grass it's those random patches against walls. Firing the gun to end the bullet on the wall causes the splash and breaks the grass next to it; you cannae use it to break grass sitting randomly in the middle of a field.

But aye, charges can break grass anywhere~

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