Spiral Knights - Vortex weapon comboing

Vortex weapon comboing

15 replies [Last post]

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 13:41

Bossbane

Hey there! Styrka here.

So, I have become a fairly comfortable mix bomber now, my trademark being the vortex bombs. Love 'em.

Anyways though, while Vortex's are great for getting people together to then blow them up into another vortex or just smack 'em around with another weapon, what are the best abusers of 5-6 enemies taped together?

So far I seem to be able to have the charge attack from the Grintovec and Magnus work well, so that's the list so far:

Grintovec
Magnus

Any other items I should know about, IE, guns with large, splashy normal bullets/charge attacks that will hit everything in my spider's web?

Please let me know and thanks for the assitance!

-Styrka

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 14:26

Severage

...

guns with large, splashy normal bullets/charge attacks that will hit everything in my spider's web?

Sounds like alchemer-lines to me.

~Sev

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 14:34

Fradow

A small list : - Blitz Needle

A small list :
- Blitz Needle (possibly the best, Brady swears only by that one), or a Pepperbox on resistant targets
- Polaris/Supernova
- Brandish lines charge
- Sealed Swords normal swing + charge
- shard bombs (remains to be test if it's great or not, not sure)
- Catalyzer charge, although detonating could be a little hard. If someone can confirm ...
- Alchemers charge

So yeah, a lot of things!.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 14:47

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

Brandish lines' charge
Antigua lines' charge
Sealed Sword lines' charge
Autogun lines' charge
Alchemer lines' charge and normal attack
Catalyser lines' charge
Troika lines' charge
Flourish lines' charge
Hammer's standard attack combo
Swords with Leviathan-like charges (FoV, CIV, Levi and reskins)
Voltaic Tempest (shock on clustered enemies)

That's all I can really think of. The new shards don't really come across as especially great on clusters of enemies... and some of these weapons may work better than others, since the DA charge drags enemies around - then again, this could be teamed up with another EV waiting to go off in order to push slags from vortex to vortex.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 15:03

Forum-Brady

Anything with an area attack,

Anything with an area attack, really. Shards, alchemers, autoguns, most sword charges.
Also, the Calibur (and FoV) line charges are improved by vortexing, as it keeps the enemy locked in place so that you can land all three swings without the KB interrupting, which greatly enhances the efficiency of the charge. I'm not certain about Levi since its charge has enough KB to possibly break the targets free of the vortex, but CiV can easily land all three hits.
The troikas are also disgustingly effective as it allows you to smash the maximum number of targets and land both hits; although the KB tends to push them out of the vortex before it explodes unless you time it to the second.

- Blitz Needle (possibly the best, Brady swears only by that one)

Not only as I do love unleashing my CiV on vortex'd baddies. Also, Zeddy and I have been playing with shards a lot today and come up with a few good numbers, including a sweet combo involving a vortex (I'm sure the post about our exploits will be up soon)

However, I am convinced that Blitztexing (ooooh yeah!) is the fastest vortex combo, as it allows every blitz bullet to be used (as opposed to using blitz freely in which case either many bullets are wasted or every bullet is loaded into a single target which is massively redundant and wasteful).
Gathering a group together allows a lot of targets to be hit and allows every bullet ( that's well over 3k damage spread across several targets) to land and since the blitz has no KB, it allows the targets to be kept inthe vortex and lets that explode in their faces too.

I've been using the combo a lot in this build and it's working disgustingly well. It's also been my prime method for doing speedruns of FSC as I can't seem to find another loadout or weapon combo I own that matches the clearing power of it.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 15:11

Chaosengineer

I've personally found that

I've personally found that shard bombs combo well enough with vortexes, at least when compared to most other bombs. Most other bombs don't really need enemies to be clustered in one spot due to their AoE abilities, and some of the higher knockback bombs will disrupt the vortex without causing incredibly high damage. (I'd imagine that DR and DBB would both far outclass them when being used in this way, though, just as they do in just about every other situation... :u)

I'd also like to add that, while not a real effective strategy, having someone stand in the center of your vortex with a charged alchemer-line weapon is very fun, and i would recommend it to anyone who hates their gunner-friends and wants to see them suffer in a swirling vortex full of angry zombies. >:D

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 15:17

Forum-Brady

Actually, Chaos, vortex does

Actually, Chaos, vortex does very little for most bombs. Since they only hit once per det, having them clustered closer together doesn't increase their effectiveness over when you don't use the vortexes.

However, since shards have KB and spread across the field; each of which being their own individual det that can hit multiple targets, the vortex does increase the shards' ability to hit more targets and max out their usefulness.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 18:26

Zeddy

Fang of Vog.

I'll get started on the topic Brady mentioned.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 07:13

Bossbane

Wow, you guys are nicowlegable (Nicely knowlegable)

First of all, let me just say that I am astounding at the level of caring this community has! You guys just swoop in and help out, no matter who asks for it. I am really impressed! =) I have been on some games where not a single other person has anyone else in mind but themselves, and they don't give a fig.

Anyways, tangent over.

My question now is that I have three pretty good crowd smashers that you guys have endoresed, a catalyzer, pepperbox (I chose pepperbox because I like having a source of solid, nuetral damage) and grintovec, but now that I have fallen into a bit of energy, I am uncertain as to which I should upgrade to fourstar. Obviously this isn't an ultimatum and I can go back and make the others later, but just while it's easy for me, which do you think I should get?

(And if you'd like details on how the catalyzer works in terms of charge attack + vortexing, let me know! I've got it down.)

-Styrka

-EDIT- I saw the shard bombing page, Zeddy. You gave me a pretty good laugh with the captions and pictures ha ha ha! I can see how it might be hard getting down a fellow like LV with something as, how shall I say, unique as shard bombs.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 07:28

Fradow

Out of the 3 weapons you

Out of the 3 weapons you outlined, here is my opinion :
- Catalyzer, I don't have a clue how you use it with Vortex (never tried), I'd be happy to know how you do that. Anyway, that would be my last choice. This gun, on its own, is not that great in the first place, though the Biohazard can be used if there is no swordie and the charge attack is fun.

- Pepperbox is good. It's a little underused since it's normal, but really the damage is great, if you can manage the lack of mobitility. That would be my first choice. It comboes especially well with a vortex since all the bullets have a small splash, and Autogun lines are high damage and use only with charge in the first place.

- Grintovec would be my second choice, if you prefer to have a sword. While I don't like the troika lines, because they are heavily out-classed by Sealed Sword, I have to admit they seem to combo very well with a Vortex (don't have first hand experience with that). If you have OCH, you could use the Hammer instead, which have a similar charge.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:20

#10

Bossbane

Let's assume for a moment --

If I were to use a weapon like the grintovec or pepperbox, should I keep crafting the 'baby' forms until I get one with a charge reduction, because they are really only used FOR their charge attacks? Or do I make what I have already and then go back when I am swimming in crowns to make better versions?

-Styrka

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 08:26

#11

Little-Juances

Yes, charge reduction is desirable to keep up a good combo. But since you're already a bomber, you could save some trouble if you use bombs only (shards). Another temporary alternative, so you can try different weapons without farming UVs are trinkets.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 09:08

#12

Tenkii

Heavy sword and gun tips

For the catalyzer lines, you want to do single-charge detonations:

Drop vortex > charge (at the right-most monster, since the charges appear on the left of the monster) > detonate, repeat one more time.

I believe you can do the 2nd explosion before or during the vortex explosion, which means there's a chance of shock cancelling the knockback (freeing them for one more vortex explosion)

Alternatively, this can work:
Charge (x3+) > Vortex > Detonate during pull > charge > detonate

One thing that does NOT tend to work well is

Vortex > charge > charge > detonate

This doesn't work well because monsters usually survive the detonation, and since it happens after vortex explodes, there's a chance they'll spread out too far.

--------------

As far as the Troika line goes, you have to be careful with your timing (and especially so if you use Electron Vortex):
You want the vortex to explode before the 2nd hit of the charge.

An interesting thing with Troika/UV's is that even though CTR/ASI is welcome for Troika lines, they naturally lean towards certain UV's:

Sudaruska line has a good chance of moderate stun, but only with charge. This encourages CTR.
Triglav line has a low chance of strong freeze, but can freeze on 2nd slash AND charge. This encourages ASI.

The Troika line's multiplies damage very well with vortex in comparison to the sealed sword line: The troika line deals 2 powerful hits in the same large area (all the monsters take the same damage equally!), but the SS line's charge has a powerful first hit with limited range, but its projectiles are weaker so the monsters further away take much less damage. With the SS line, it's generally better to take advantage of its attack speed and after dropping the first vortex, just circle and knock enemies into it with normal slashes, saving the 2nd slash for the explosion hit.

-------------

Other guns:

- The autogun line is not a good match for vortex - it has high single-target DPS but its thin bullets and lack of explosion doesn't really add well with vortex. Maybe you can push it with pepperbox and setting lots of things on fire, but still, lack of multiplication wastes vortex.

- Alchemers: Aim for the (relative) right side of the group (if you're facing down, then shoot to the left of your screen) for the most ricochet action. Storm Driver line and shock work the best with vortex.

- Pulsar line : Keep distance and use the normal hits. I don't even have this line but am very annoyed by party members who use it improperly in close range while the vortex is out.

I can't speak for the magnus line, unfortunately. I honestly don't even consider it as a vortex weapon lol.

-----
Also, CTR isn't AS mandatory for vortex if you have a damage weapon out as well. In most cases, one vortex is all you really need- if you switch to a damage weapon after you lay it down and work together with teammates, they generally die before or soon after the vortex explodes.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:59

#13

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

Catalyser works due to the mobs clustered together, allowing you to blow up lots of mobs. However, I think there are still some issues with detonated charges not always setting off other charges in a chain reaction, not to mention the difficulty of hitting one charged-up target in a tightly-clustered mob.

Pepperbox will probably work well; I personally have a Plague Needle, but the mechanics should be the same other than the enemies you'd use it on. I'd go with this as the first choice; its high damage output makes it an excellent choice even without the help of the Vortex. The major issue is the fact that the charge locks you in place whilst unloading, but with some practise this shouldn't be too much of an issue unless you're lagging horribly, and in combination with the vortex it's even less of a problem.

The Grintovec works okay, although you will have to deal with the bugbear of its non-specialised damage and slower swings in other situations, as well as having to get enough PvP tokens for a Triglav (a grand total of 300 for the entire Freeze-status line). Some people may also find the Freeze status to be a bit annoying when they're trying to pound enemies to a pulp and suddenly end up with a retrode/zombie/wolver/whatever stuck in their face, rather than halfway across the room. Of course, it's entirely possible that it will just keep your enemies locked together more effectively in combination with the vortex, given how you plan to use it, and if you're a bomber, it makes a decent normal-damage sidearm with a good amount of knockback, and gets considerably better if you can manage to put an ASI UV on it. I'd put this as the second choice.

Thu, 11/22/2012 - 17:48

#14

Forum-Brady

The fire from pepperbox will

The fire from pepperbox will help further overall damage output too, helping kill off stragglers.

I don't like Triglav personally as (as Aureate stated) the freeze is applied before the KB, so it prevents them from being thrown away, which I feel is an essential part of the Troika lines. That's really a personal preference though; some people want the charge without the KB, and Triglav is simply the answer to that.
CTR or ASI bonuses work on Troikas, but that also depends on the rest of your gear.

I couldn't say much about the Cat, but considering the rest of your loadout are charge-based weapons (and a charge based combo at that) I'd consider getting a nippy 4th option. You don't need three weapons to combo with the vortex, as you simply won't be using that many, especially since Pepperbox and Triglav are normal type; personally I'd leave the 4th weapon for other things, like quickly taking out stragglers, button/switches, turret shooting etc. In your place, I'd probably take an alchemer (Hail Driver at that, so I'd have the option of freezing annoyingly positioned targets to their place while I do charge-related things) but it really depends how you feel about Cata and how specifically you use it with your build.

Sat, 11/24/2012 - 15:30

#15

Zerokken

I'd try the Cutter line's

I'd try the Cutter line's charge attacks and normal attacks, but I might say charge. They're pretty fast ones to charge, which I know from using one, and it roots you in place and stops the enemies from taking knockback from your sword until the final swing.
It's best used when the enemy can't attack, which the bomb, I think, sets that perfectly.

.. DVS, please.

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Vortex weapon comboing