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Any tips on a bomber arsenal?

24 replies [Last post]
Tue, 11/27/2012 - 02:56
Forum-Devil's picture
Forum-Devil

So i'm currently trying to make a full bomber arsenal but i had no idea what to get and what to use so maybe you guys(pro bombers) can give me some tips.

I need to know what bomb to get for all situation and i wanna be element bomber.
Dps bomb=nitronome?
Elemental bomb=No idea O.O" fiery,freezing?o.o will toxic be any good?
Shadow bomb=No idea..idk i try the shard bomb,not really useful
Piercing=Spine cone?

Gear to get? :)
Trinket to get?

Atm i got all weapon slot and trinket slot ready :),so any bomb is always welcome.

Sorry if it's kinda messy because i'm in a hurry.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 03:14
#1
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Welcome to the explosion world!

Hey, great to see a bomber, those are rare.

First, for the damage bombs :
- Nitronome is great for solo or with a group that is prepared. Otherwise, you may want to use other non-disrupting bombs.
- all shards bombs are going to be bad if you use them alone. But if you can find at least one other friend who use them and play with him, they can land some pretty good results, more informations on this thread : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/69015
- elemental bomb : apart from the shard one, there is no dedicated elemental bomb. You can somewhat fill this slots by the VT+AoA combo (AoA doesn't work in FSC sadly), which is a little more support-oriented but still does great damage. Note that fire is NOT elemental.
- shadow bomb : apart from the shard ones, you only have one choice : Dark Retribution, which requires OCH and is especially good against big targets
- piercing bomb : Dark Briar Barrage is great. It's the same as nitronome without the annyoing knockback and visual disruption, as well as still having some knockdown and bonus damage against 2 families .... which also comes with resistance to 2 other families. Overall a great bomb to have, but can't be used everywhere.

For the gear, you have several options. My favorite is Volcanic Demo Helm + Mad Bomber Suit with 2 Boom Module, which provides CTR : Max and DB : Max to your lvl 10 bombs, as well as some fire resistance. Other options include full Mad Bomber to free a trinket slot at the cost of fire resistance, full volcanic demo to have a high fire resistance by losing DB, and mercurial demo to have some movement speed at the cost of loosing lots of offensive power (if you go full Mercurial, you'll need 2 CTR trinkets and will only have DB : Med)

All this can also be dependant of the UVs you have on your bombs.

You may want to look at haze bombs, which are greats (especially VT + AoA, my favorite combo) and Vortex bombs.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 03:32
#2
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
I'd just like to point out

I'd just like to point out that as much as people like to think otherwise, the vortexes can be used as dedicated dps bombs for shadow and elemental (and their neutral enemy types work nicely enough, too; especially with the suction effect). Their damage from them is only very slightly lower than blast bombs, and the charge time is about a half second longer, but it does gather the enemies up for you, ensuring that the maximum number at once can be hit, and keeps them together so you can clump up more and more for spamming of the bomb.

Thanks to the fact that it gathers and damages crowds easier and quicker than any blast bomb (especially with the blasts unleashing huge KBs requiring you to reposition yourself amongst the enemies) their overall dps output is actually a lot higher than it might sound on paper. Even with their KB effect, it's not very extreme and leaves them ready to funnel back towards you into the next vortex (where they get quickly sucked in again anyways) and the electron has the handy shock effect.
To finish it off, hazes combine nicely with this as well, since all the monsters are gathered together; your haze can be guaranteed to affect as many as possible. It's also very helpful if your hazes aren't 5* yet and don't have the full sized rad.

As well as being a great, safe and fun bomb to dps with solo, it's also very team-friendly, as it gathers up a crowd for your party members to unleash their favourite charges into as well.

Vortexes may be classed as support, but they can most certainly dps with the other bombs.

To get a look at what I mean, I made this demo video about a year ago, showing clips of vortexes being used in RJP.
(note: the video does include some other bomb footage that you may or may not be interested in. The dedicated vortex stuff is about halfway through. Although, since the OP is asking for bomb advice, it may help)
Also, if you're new to bombing, I also made this bombs demo video for bombers in the making, around the same time, which gives a more general look at bombs. Note, however, that anything regarding sun shards is now out-of-date, as the old RSS no longer exists.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 06:29
#3
Bopp's picture
Bopp
Bombing Guide

The advice here (which I've only skimmed) seems good, but your starting place should be the Bombing Guide on the wiki. It's actually quite good.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 08:37
#4
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Like Darkbrady says, both vortexes are excellent and must-haves for a dedicated bombers. Personally, I started out with Ash of Agni and the old Sun Shards.

Your priority should be a little something like this:
-Spine Cone and upgrades are all-around excellent for taking out healers. It's a great damage bomb for everything but slimes and contructs.
-You will be the most popular guy in your guild/group if you have shivermist. All the blitzers will want you on their FSCs!
-You will also be popular if you have a vortex. The pre-5* bombs are too short and tiny to be of much merit, but it's very worth it to get it up to that point. Not only is it great in a group, but they're decent solo bombs in their own rights. They combine well with almost anything.
-You will eventually want all the haze bombs. Voltaic Tempest is a great crowd controller and Venom Veiler can make a room full of gremlin healers a joke.
-If you're at all interested in the expansion pack, the Dark Retribution is a lot of fun and, despite complaints from some people, pretty powerful.

For a startup bomber, the choice is pretty much between Volcanic and Mad Bomber. Volcanic gives CTR and fire resistance, while Mad gives CTR+Damage at the expense of being very vulnerable to statuses. Can you deal with being shocked or on fire for about 15 seconds at a time? How much do you really need that extra bomb damage?

Also, get a Volcanic Plate Shield and never worry about shields again.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 09:10
#5
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Beware of Shivermist

"You will be the most popular guy in your guild/group if you have shivermist."

I can't agree with that. Vanaduke is the only mob where Shivermist is highly advised, otherwise most veteran players probably won't like its indiscriminate usage for one or several of those reasons :
- you can't shield bump. Meaning you also can get trapped in the middle of mobs, with no way to get away
- it doesn't do any damage except the thaw, which will never happen in a party where freeze seems to attract players
- it prevents knockback. ALL knockback. Including the one on heavy sword which is mandatory to not get hit in retaliation, or the one on brandish charge explosion which lets mobs ride the charge
- it disrupts mobs attack pattern because they can't move : for example a zombie which should have moved will only jump without moving.

I agree with the rest of Zeddy statements, except for the Shield. I'm a firm adept of having a specific shield for at least each damage type (when possible, I like to also have for each status). But as a bomber, a shield may not be your first priority, and a single shield may indeed be enough.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 10:46
#6
Alice-In-Pyroland's picture
Alice-In-Pyroland
Got to agree with Fradow

Got to agree with Fradow here, as I've been saying the bombing thread for a long time now, Shiver is inferior to Vortex in the vast majority of cases, and out-performed by other status bombs in many others. Especially with the recent Stun-fix making Stagger Storm an extremely good bomb, Shiver's utility is really dwindling. The only places I even recommend taking Shiver are FSC for locking down Vanaduke and Trojans when appropriate, and Compound 42 to better control the huge numbers of Toxoils since Shiver not only immobilizes them but also puts out their fire (Plus they're actually immune to just about every other status once ignited). Aside from maybe also using it in the Shadow Lair version of IMF there really isn't anywhere else you're ever going to want to use Shiver.

As for a generic bombing loadout although it's recieved ammendments in recent patches this is the go-to loadout;

Volcanic Demo / Mad Bomber Helm
Volcanic Demo / Mad Bomber Suit
2x Elite Boom Modules
Stratum-appropriate shield
Dark Briar Barrage / Dark Retribution
Graviton Vortex / Electron Vortex
Ash of Agni / Voltaic Tempest / Stagger Storm / Venom Veiler
Ash of Agni / Voltaic Tempest / Stagger Storm / Venom Veiler

This covers just about all your bases, although as is the case with any bombing loadout you can swap in Nitronome or Big Angry Bomb over any of them if you feel the need to. Shivermist is obviously good for FSC and if you're planning to run FSC a lot you'll want to make it, but it's dead weight everywhere else. Shard Bombs aren't worth prioritizing, make more important weapons first and then grab some shards if you want to try them out. Irontech Destroyer and Heavy Deconstructor are basically collector's items and pretty much useless.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:41
#7
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Fradow & Echoez (hi again n_n)

To be fair, Vanaduke is kind of a big deal, and shiver makes a huge difference on him. I also find Shiver to be a good followup after a vortex, as it'll prevent them from exploding away even if the shock doesn't hit.

Back before missions, I found shiver to be pretty useful against the turret ambush in arenas. Not so much of that anymore, I suppose.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 16:41
#8
Alice-In-Pyroland's picture
Alice-In-Pyroland
In turret waves Shiver only

In turret waves Shiver only really helps more than Nitro will if your team is un-coordinated. Otherwise you all go to different corners between waves and with Nitro chaining you can lock 2-3 of the turrets entirely until they die. Although yeah Shiver is undeniably useful in the Vanaduke fight (Although whether that's explicitly because of Shiver's utility or the fact pure-bombers really have no alternative to actually contribute there) but elsewhere -even in most of he citadel itself- other bombs are better and it's important to stress since a lot of newer players tend to end up idolizing Shiver and learn to rely on it, which really hampers on improvment and generally speaking is a rather literal definition of a crutch. Although flimsy-skill arguments aside the most important thing really is a lot of end-game vets find Shiver boring, and as bomber I find Shiver spamming mind-numbingly uninteresting compared to the myriad of more visceral, effective and extremely pretty explosions I could instead be making.

I mean I think the important thing to stress here is bombing as an art is all about specialization, you definitely want Shivermist, Venom Veiler and any other "niche" bomb just because exploiting those dynamics if what makes bombers special in the first place. But if you're asking me what order I recommend someone makes bombs, Shiver is going to always going to be put off as long as is possible because -especially for newer players- it's prone to generating bad habits and in many ways limits someone's perspective on all the wonderful quirks of array of bombs avaliable to them.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 18:32
#9
Forum-Devil's picture
Forum-Devil
Ok...

After i read all those post..@_@ my eyes is so pain now..

So i'm taking all your suggestion and end up thinking this.

Bombs:
Dps-nitronome(obviously)
Elemental-All vaporizer,electron vortex.
Shadow-Gravtion vortex?o.O idk what good about this bomb since it can't shock like electron.
Piercing-DBB

Gear:
Full mad bomber suit(i'm very familiar how fsc work so i'm confident enough to use this set).

Shield:
Owlite or plate?It doesn't matter i know but just kinda wonder about it. :)

Trinkets:
Elite bomb moduelx1
Elite bomb focus modulex1

So i can had both ctr and damage bonus max..:P.

Great information that you guys had provide for a lil bomber :).
But i sort of wonder what bomb should i use in this situation.

Fsc:
Loadout?Weapon?shield?

RJP:
Loadout?weapon?shield?

Twins:
Loadout?weapon?shield?

Snarby:
Loadout?weapon?shield?

Including SL. :)

And combo.
Shivermist,VT,DBB,SS for fsc?
AoA,Nitro,SS,VV for rjp?
I had no idea what to bring for twins....
AoA,Nitro,DBB,SS for snarby?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:13
#10
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

The graviton bomb is valuable for two reasons:
1. It can't shock like electron, so it's preferable against quicksilvers.
2. It's shadow damage, so it'll kill gremlins and slimes faster as long as you chain it.

However, I still think Dark Retribution is a better shadow damage bomb. It's also excellent against constructs.

Skip the focus module, as full mad bomber and level 10 bombs will leave you at Max CTR anyway. For the same reason, you won't need more than a single boom module. You could still have the focus module if you want full CTR even before reaching heat level 10 I suppose.

FSC:
Electron Vortex
Shivermist
Dark Briar Barrage
Voltaic Tempest/Stagger Storm

I like comboing EV and Shiver, as the shiver, as mentioned in my last post. I also like following that up with sun shards or crystal bomb but shard bombs really are just for the particularly interested.

IMF:
Graviton Vortex
Stagger Storm / Shivermist (In the shadow lair, Shiver can be used to put out oilers, but it also makes gremlin bombers spastic)
Dark Briar Barrage / Dark Retribution (I did the Shadow Lair last weekend and there were a lot more gremlins than I expected. I think the run would've fared better if I'd brought this.)
Some kind of gun, for the switches.

GV/Shivermist combo, or Stagger Storm + 3 x Damage Bomb

RJP, aka the best place to bomb ever:
Dark Retribution / Nitronome
Graviton Vortex
Ash of Agni
possibly Venom Veiler

GWW:
Dark Briar Barrage, for everything
Electron Vortex
Voltaic Tempest, for spookats
A sword or gun, for the boss. Bombs are suicide there.

Perhaps a better bomber than I will correct me on IMF and GWW.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 00:23
#11
Forum-Devil's picture
Forum-Devil
Ah,you got my mistake.

Ah,you got my mistake. x)
Perhaps,i should get heart trinket?since there was an empty slot left there.

However,i can't afford a OHC mission so DR is usually a no for me.
Question:You vortex first then shivermist or shivermist first then vortex?A video will help,sort of confused here.

So,DBB is preferable than nitro in fsc?:D and idk how to use a sun shard bomb..when i use it,i never hit anything because i place on a wrong location.

IMF:
Good enough for me. :)

RJP:
So gravition vortex still had it use here?:) So i vortex first the place a nitro?xD

GWW:
So this will fits for SL mode too?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:18
#12
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Either you get a heart

Either you get a heart trinket, which can also be used for Lockdown, or you get an offensive trinket for your side-weapon, which can also be used if you change role sometime in the future.

DBB is preferable if you play in a team, not only in FSC, because DBB is team-friendly, Nitro is not.

In RJP, yes Graviton is useful. One useful bomb he left out is Voltaic Tempest. The shock dispatch minis like no other due to it's aoe property, all the while being good support.

And yes, the GWW loadout he gives is for SL mode : there is no kats in the normal mode.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:23
#13
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
And yes, the GWW loadout he

And yes, the GWW loadout he gives is for SL mode : there is no kats in the normal mode.

There are like 3, just to put that out there~

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 01:31
#14
Forum-Devil's picture
Forum-Devil
No idea about SS.

I don't see a point on using a bomb in ld.
Why?
Experience skolver can get pass it and easily kill me in two swing of a ff.
I know a VT will be a beast in LD when you choose to capture instead of damage since it shock the enemy and it's a very useful supporting bomb for your teammates to kill others.

For that rjp part:
I should go for:
Graviton vortex
VT
Nitro
VV

Good enough?,since i replace AoA with VT.

And when will SS be useful?o.O so i get it huh?

Edit:Actually there five kats..spawn in GWW normal mode.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 02:10
#15
Fradow's picture
Fradow
I wouldn't replace AoA by VT

I wouldn't replace AoA by VT for RJP : I would get both. I would probably switch VV out since for the boss you can use vial and it's not very effective otherwise.

It's been a long time I didn't run GWW normal, sorry.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 06:23
#16
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Nykza

Do AoA instead of Nitro. It's more party-friendly and ice cubes are super weak to fire. Like Fradow said, Venom Veiler is the more redundant option as, honestly, Ice Queen is even easier than the regular Royal Jelly.

For the combo I mentioned, I place and EV and then immediately a shiver. Provided you're fast enough, the shiver should detonate shortly before the vortex explodes, keeping the enemies all clumped together.

Regarding Lockdown, it's true that VT is a powerful tool there for captures, provided nobody on the enemy team are immune to it. I tried a few matches recently after I got my mercurial armour and I was surprised to find how much more effective it made shardbombing there. Suddenly I have that little edge I need to dodge hits while weaving through my own shards. Shard bomb are, however, very tricky to use and you will need a lot of patience and training with it.

About Stagger Storm, it's a generally good support bomb that can be used absolutely anywhere. You can replace Shivermist, VT or Venom Veiler with stagger anywhere you feel like slowing down the enemy would be more helpful than the other effects. Notably, Darkfire Vanaduke is immune to Shivermist and as such you might feel like Stagger Storm is the better option to bring there.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:15
#17
Forum-Devil's picture
Forum-Devil
So AoA is much better than

So AoA is much better than nitro in party but how about solo mode?Should i bring a dps bomb or just element effect bomb?

Very true about the shard bomb,when i use it in ld i'm nearly useless as a rubbish because it's too hard for me to aim as you can't spam it because it doesn't had a radius meter.

And question:
1)My guildmaster told me that every bomber must..must always had a side arm sword in case i went into trouble when soloing but i don't think i'll want a sword since i'm a full bomber(love it x) ) but will you recommend a full bomber to get a sword?o.o
2)I heard that poison can stop vana fireball to unspawn around it..is that true?o.O
3)Why ice queen is easier than regular royal jelly?O.O" wonder about that..and i'm serious..
4)When i determine to bomb vana,should i use shard bomb or DBB?Some said shard bomb because it had better surviving but i like DBB :).

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 17:44
#18
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
As for soloing with a

As for soloing with a sidearm, a good loadout imo is full mad bomber with a boom mod, slash mod and BTS. This gives your bombs max:max stats and vh sword damage, so if you bring along a fast sword (or even a slow sword with KB) it allows you to easily keep yourself safe in a quick situation without needing to charge up a bomb, since stopping to charge isn't always ideal.

It's also much better for bushes and grass~

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 19:45
#19
Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick Number 58425

The Valiance is a great bomber sidearm.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 02:05
#20
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

1) I would absolutely recommend bringing a non-bomb for IMF. It doesn't have to be a sword though. In general, If you're cornered you could just shield-bump, or knock the enemy back with Valiance.

Back in the old days I used to bring a 2* calibur along with my 4* bombs for IMF. These days I have a few 5* guns and swords I bring as sidearms in some situations. Examples of why you might want other weapons than bombs with you:
-Multiple greavers can be tricky to bomb, but a little running in circles inside the radius of a DBB mostly gets them.
-Areas with a lot of switches, such as IMF, can be made a complete chaos if you're using bombs. As long as you have teammates to hit those switches, you could rely on using small-radius bombs such as vortex and haze bombs.
-Some distant switches might need guns. You can get around this using vials.
-Minerals take a while to break without bombs other than DR. However, minerals are dumb and nobody cares about them.

2) I've never heard of this. Do the fireballs usually unspawn on their own?

3) I don't know, really. I think ice queen's health simply doesn't scale as much as the knight's damage do at the lower depths of shadow lairs. For some reason, Ice Queen and the Red Roarmulus Twins seem to die faster in the Shadow Lairs than on regular boss runs.

4) Shard bombs are awful on Vana, use DBB. In the third wave, the shards won't even have the reach to reach through both layers of fireballs. You might also want Nitro for the mask, as it is the weakest to normal damage. In fact, if you had to choose between just Nitro and just DBB, I'd bring Nitro for a bombs-only FSC.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 06:24
#21
Irokwe's picture
Irokwe
@Zeddy

I've never heard of this. Do the fireballs usually unspawn on their own?

I think he meant that poison prevents the REspawning of fireballs after putting them out with water. I've heard of this too, but I'm not exactly sure either.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 08:33
#22
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Have heard it myself but

Have heard it myself but never tested it. Should try it out.

In fact, I need to spam FSC today; will grab Zeddles and test it today to confirm~

EDIT: Just tested it. Myth Busted. Doesn't even so much as reduce the rate at which they respawn~

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:23
#23
Senshi's picture
Senshi
Shivermist

In addition to Vanaduke, I find Shivermist really useful on any devilite level. It -ought- to be useful with all jumpy-dodgy enemies, but there are easier ways to kill gremlins and wolvers cheat and 'burrow' to new locations ice and all. Sometimes it helps to pin spookats down too - in locked-room battles and arenas, I don't usually want to see Shivermist, but if it's got spookats or devilites or both... then I do.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 00:30
#24
Techno-Green
I agree with all of you

I agree with all of you

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