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Skolver? Vog? UV's are making it hard to decide

14 replies [Last post]
Wed, 01/23/2013 - 18:19
Mr-Zorba

So I was planning to use my ash tail coat/cap to go for Vog first, for Vanaduke, but then the other day I crafted these:
Wolver Cap w/ Increased Pierce Defense: High
Increased Normal Defense: Medium
Wolver Coat w/ Increased Pierce Defense: Medium
Increased Shadow Defense: Low

Both are upgraded to Dusker, building up enough energy to make them Ash Tail, but then I have to decide...should I make them Skolver or Vog?

My initial thoughts were "Skolver! Then I'd be invincible to pierce!" but then I also thought it would be really useful on Vog as well, so I need help to decide.

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 22:42
#1
Mzculet's picture
Mzculet
I want them!!!

You can turn the cap into vog and coat into skolver.

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 23:36
#2
Fradow's picture
Fradow
I would really keep them for

I would really keep them for Skolver, that's really the best use of them.

If you want to go Vog first, just craft another set and keep those great UV at hand for when you build Skolver. It would be a shame to ruin them because you want Vog first.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 04:46
#3
Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
^

what fradow said

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 05:54
#4
Dobas's picture
Dobas
What about...?

Currently I've got Ash Tail armor with Increased Shadow:High. Better for Vog or Skolver, or does it really matter in this case?

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 06:56
#5
Fradow's picture
Fradow
@Dobas : Vog because it makes

@Dobas : Vog because it makes a perfect FSC armor, if you farm FSC : Vog protects against everything except the part of shadow zombies and trojans deal, so Shadow UV is perfect to fill that gap.
If you LD a lot, Skolver because it will gives you protection against GF (though not sure it's enough to get you to take one more full hit, but it never hurts).

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 07:00
#6
Dobas's picture
Dobas
Thanks Fradow! I'm not a LD

Thanks Fradow! I'm not a LD player, so I think I'll be gearing towards Vog.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 07:45
#7
Ultimaknightz's picture
Ultimaknightz
@Fradow

@Fradow
The Skolver set only protects against normal, piercing, and freeze. Not shadow. If you're talking about normal damage, then both the Vog Cub set and the Skolver set are the same in normal defense. However, in LD, I see a significant amount of DA's out there. With the Vog Cub set, not only will you be protected against its attacks, but you will also attack fast enough to kill him before he hits you. The Skolver set does not give the attack speed bonus that the Vog Cub set does. Also, in the wiki it states that the DA is the most popular of all endgame weapons, endgame being 5*.

I'm sure that that error of yours was not intentional, but I'd just like to point it out.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 07:58
#8
Fradow's picture
Fradow
"The Skolver set only

"The Skolver set only protects against normal, piercing, and freeze. Not shadow. "
I know. The skolver set is the default set in LD, for good reasons. Perhaps I didn't express myself well on that one.

"However, in LD, I see a significant amount of DA's out there."
I see much much more GF and toothpicks than DA. Hammer and Polaris are a valid concern, but is it worth getting killed faster by toothpicks ?

"but you will also attack fast enough to kill him before he hits you"
Depends if you get ASI UV on your swords. Or ASI trinket (especially if you are not a striker). And how much you value DMG.

Last but not least, Skolver gives you freeze immune to Shiver. Trust me, if enough people go Vog, you'll see a lot more Shivers coming up. And freeze is arguably even more dangerous than Shock.

"Also, in the wiki it states that the DA is the most popular of all endgame weapons, endgame being 5*."
The wiki is not always right, and there is no data to support that. It used to be the most popular because of FSC, and because Brandish used to be bad. But in LD, why spit on shadow damage (there are people with elemental resistance, notably bombers) and a chance to curse ? Unless you expect shadow protection, there is no reason to choose DA over GF.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 08:25
#9
Ultimaknightz's picture
Ultimaknightz
@Fradow

"The Skolver set only protects against normal, piercing, and freeze. Not shadow. "
I know. The skolver set is the default set in LD, for good reasons. Perhaps I didn't express myself well on that one.
(You said that it gives protection against the GF.)

"However, in LD, I see a significant amount of DA's out there."
I see much much more GF and toothpicks than DA. Hammer and Polaris are a valid concern, but is it worth getting killed faster by toothpicks?
(That statement is entirely subjective.)

"but you will also attack fast enough to kill him before he hits you"
Depends if you get ASI UV on your swords. Or ASI trinket (especially if you are not a striker). And how much you value DMG.
(The Vog Cub set will give you a Sword Attack Speed Bonus:Very High.)

Last but not least, Skolver gives you freeze immune to Shiver. Trust me, if enough people go Vog, you'll see a lot more Shivers coming up. And freeze is arguably even more dangerous than Shock.
(There aren't many shivers out there any more. They all have resorted to Wolver stuff. Crude tools for unrefined weaklings. And they're going to stay at that, because everyone else is using it.)

"Also, in the wiki it states that the DA is the most popular of all endgame weapons, endgame being 5*."
The wiki is not always right, and there is no data to support that. It used to be the most popular because of FSC, and because Brandish used to be bad. But in LD, why spit on shadow damage (there are people with elemental resistance, notably bombers) and a chance to curse ? Unless you expect shadow protection, there is no reason to choose DA over GF.
(There is not data to support your statement saying that the wiki is not always right?

And the Brandish never used to be bad.

That is exactly the reason as to why the DA is so popular now. Since a lot of people now use the GF, most now have shadow armor, which would make the DA more effective. Also, the Faust has a chance of cursing yourself. The DA's charged attack shows more range as well, providing for more versatility.)
I have to go sleep in a while, as it is close to midnight for me.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 08:53
#10
Bopp's picture
Bopp
Ultimaknightz

Ultimaknightz, to say that "the wiki is not always right" should be uncontroversial. For example, many of the guns and bombs went for months with incorrect damage numbers, after the May damage buff. I still check the edit history, when reading those pages, to make sure I'm not looking at outdated numbers.

When I got my first Brandish, the alchemy line didn't go past 2 stars. So yes, Brandish used to be "bad". At that time, DA was very popular for FSC, which is what people call the "endgame". My impression is that the introduction of higher Brandishes, and the buff to the Brandish charge attack last year, both increased the popularity of Brandishes relative to DA.

When Fradow said that the Skolver would protect against GF, I think he was saying that Mr-Zorba should upgrade his coat to Skolver, because that is (in Fradow's opinion) the best Wolver Coat for Lockdown. And, because Mr-Zorba's Wolver Coat has shadow+1, the Skolver Coat would have shadow+1, and hence protect a little against shadow weapons. Although we all make mistakes, Fradow knows his stuff, so you should give him the benefit of the doubt when reading his posts.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 08:58
#11
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

"There is not data to support your statement saying that the wiki is not always right?"
Wiki is edited by players. Players are subejctive, and human. Just like you previsouly said "(That statement is entirely subjective.)"

DA was popular because the only T3 boss is full of zombies. And this was before Lockdown even existed.
Put it into context. See wiki history logs, check who made that statement and when. Is it recent and from a thrusty source?

"And the Brandish never used to be bad."
Brandish got a buff last year. It caused smaller (and less) explosions than now. It wasnt totally bad, but it's better now.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 10:19
#12
Fradow's picture
Fradow
"You said that it gives

"You said that it gives protection against the GF"
Obviously, a skolver part with shadow UV gives protection against GF. I already admited my formalation was bad. Read between the lines.

"The Vog Cub set will give you a Sword Attack Speed Bonus:Very High."
Yes. And a striker module and an UV ASI : Very High makes Vog useless. Or UV ASI : Med (which isn't that expensive) and an ASI trinket. Even one of those makes half of Vog useless.

"There aren't many shivers out there any more. They all have resorted to Wolver stuff. Crude tools for unrefined weaklings. And they're going to stay at that, because everyone else is using it."
There aren't many shivers because of the proliferation of freeze immune, mainly via Skolver set. Drop the freeze immune and shivers are going to be a threat again.

"And the Brandish never used to be bad."
You must be new here. Before their charge buff, which I'm old enough to remember, very few people used it. And I'm not even as old as Bopp to remember when there was no upgrade.

"Since a lot of people now use the GF, most now have shadow armor"
That's totally subjective. Apart from gunners who go shadowsun for the bonus damage, I hardly see anyone who use shadow armor. On the other hand, bombers use elemental armors. It comes down to chances to curse on second strike versus better charge attack. Since no one charge in LD .... The obvious answer is to choose GF, and cover another damage type with another weapon.

"Also, the Faust has a chance of cursing yourself"
No.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 13:39
#13
Aureate's picture
Aureate
...people actually use that charge in LD?

Anyone using the charge of Gran Faust in LD is pretty much asking to be shot.
It is ridiculously pigslow to charge, not to mention apt to vanish at the slightest provocation for no good reason. The loss of mobility would be more likely to be fatal than the fact that you just cursed yourself, not to mention that most people are sensible enough to pay attention to the fact that they're statused.
It is also impossible to curse yourself with a Faust-line if you don't use the charge.

The Brandish was once rather less desirable, due to the unreliability of its explosions. There was one point where you were lucky to get one on a Nightblade charge; two or three were the expected number on the 5* swords.

Also, in general you want to craft defensive equipment into stuff that already has the same defence type or resist type. If you want fire resistance, then you're going to want to have that stack to be as much fire resist as possible, so you can be immune. You're probably not going to want piercing defence on a piece of Snarbolax, for that matter; the protection given by that UV on its own is unlikely to make a significant difference, and there are few situations where both piercing and shadow defence would be desirable at the same time.

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 18:08
#14
Mr-Zorba
Well, i don't play much Lockdown

Well, i don't play much lockdown, so for me it's a choice between having better armor to farm FSC (if i choose Vog) or better for Shadow Snarby/Ice Queen in the far future (if i choose skover)
I have another set of Ash Tail ready to be upgraded once i get the energy for it, so I asked this question more for advice on whether to make vog sooner or later, sooner being the set that currently has no UVs.
Based on Fradow's advice i think i'll go with Skolver on the set with the UVs and use my existing Ash tail for vog, and just hope for something good.

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