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One set to rule them all?

13 replies [Last post]
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 16:32
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane

Hi there! Styrka here.

So perhaps I'm not THAT much of a beginner in terms of being a knight, but there is still much I've yet to test on my own! The many walls I've hit in the game so far are:

Devilites (Shudder)
Getting hit with pure damage shadow or pierce (It makes us bombers sad, trust me)
Going up against a monster that I can't really damage well (Grievers with bombs = sad times)
Deciding whether charge attacks or normal attacks were better (Still not sure on this one.)

So. I went back to my drawing board and came up with this all rounder set:

Dragon Scale Helm
Valkyrie Armor
Cold Iron Vanquisher/Fang of Vog
Electron Vortex

Now, before you pile drive me and say 'NO!!! Armor without normal defence!!!' Hear me out:

The Dragon Scale helm offers excellent protection from pure pierce and element, as well as having protection from poison and fire. It also gives medium attack boost against beasts.

The Valkyrie Armor gives normal defence and shadow, meaning from then on that nothing can smash away my entire health bar by using pure pierce or shadow as they do in the third tire. It then also gives a medium boost against fiends and has moderate protection from poison and curse. But, then, it also has negative protection for fire -- but, the Dragon Scale helm nulls that quite nicely.

The Cold Iron Carver then allows me to hit everything for neutral damage and undead for high and mauls everything with it's charge attack that is caught in an Electron Vortex. Likewise, a charge from Fang of Vog would destroy everything caught in a vortex, and wouldn't burn me quite so often now that I got rid of the Valkyrie fire weakness.

SO! All in all, I get:

-Medium damage against beasts
-Medium damage against fiends
-High damage against undead
-No weak attacking types
-Fair defence from all attack types
-A method of crowd control
-More or less immunity from poison
-Solid protection against curse

What do you think? Nice on paper, poor in practice?

Thanks for the feedback and for reading,

-Styrka

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 17:04
#1
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane
Or, if normal defence IS that important...

My other version would be to swap out the Dragon Scale Helm for a Volcanic Salamander helmet in order to keep the fire weakness at bay, but then have high element and normal defence. This way, the only things I need to look out for are Beasts and Jellies, which are actually two of the weakest monster types, and that I would have a medium damage boost against Jellies would help too.

-Styrka

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 17:22
#2
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Admittedly, if you want to maximize the benefit of armor that grants bonus damage vs monster families, you're guna need a variety of weapon types (Swords, guns, and bombs), you're guna have to switch between the weapon types often, and you're guna have to rely on them for damage (I.e. you aren't trying to kill people with the Electron Vortex, just control them. Thus a damage bonus on the vortex will be near uselesS). I don't see that being at all practical with just two weapon slots (and no trinkets). In addition, the armor sets with specific damage bonuses against monster types are meant to be... well... specialized for said monster type (Theoretically at least... cough cough Chroma cough...). You're trying to be slightly specialized at everything, but in the end you're spending far more effort to be mediocre at everything. For example, a Chaos Cowl will outdo your entire armor set, in addition to the CTR bonus that synergies well with your Electron Vortex.

Personally, my favorite armor set that covers all damage types is Divine Veil + Skolver Coat. Even then, I don't feel like it mitigates enough damage to make it worthwhile. If you're going for optimization, I'd say go for one weapon type, and get armor/trinkets that give you bonuses for just that weapon type (The exceptions are the Chaos Set and the new Black Kat Cowl).

If you're going for an all round set, Levi will outdo the CIV.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:57
#3
Bopp's picture
Bopp
agree

I agree with Traevelliath that Divine Veil + Skolver Coat is usually better than Dragon Scale Helm and Valkyrie Mail. I agree that Leviathan Blade is usually better than Cold Iron Vanquisher.

Electron Vortex is a strong weapon, but it's far from essential. I'm surprised to see it in a two-weapon general-purpose loadout.

If you've been playing for a while, then maybe you're past the point of wanting a single, general-purpose set? Get a set with strong shadow defense to wear into fiend levels. Take along a piercing sword and Electron Vortex.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 12:43
#4
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane
At Bopp

Well, the thing is is that I struggle with money in spiral knights. Being free to play can be hard when it comes to getting enough crowns to make five star stuff! The exchange right now is something around 6.5k for 100 ce (Which is actually quite good, I've seen it at 9k). But even still then, that means you need around 45k just in energy alone to make a single piece of 5 star equipment, not factoring the cost of getting it to four star or even getting the recipe for it, which at minimum is 10k.

As you can see, while saying that you can just have a set for every occasion, it's easier said than done. An all purpose set is then very appealing to me!

But, I'm flexible: If that was a not so great all purpose set, what might a better one be that's not Chaos, as death by status is a fast, painful one. What of something like the Quicksilver armor? Is a medium speed boost all that for a running and gunning/bombing/swording?

-Styrka

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 12:56
#5
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Running faster is kind of useless. I'd rather have more damage on one weapon.

There's no perfect general set. It's either chaos or specialize in one type.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 13:58
#6
Aureate's picture
Aureate
Divine Veil and Skolver

The thing about your set is that you get resistance to curse and poison (Double Max! Poison and Max! Curse), neither of which are considered essential resistances or especially dangerous (unless you're facing Zeddy in his APSet with his Venom Veiler and Triglav, in which case...). You also get two family bonuses for all weapons; logically speaking, it's a family bonus for each weapon type, so all in all, it could be considered as six Med family damage UVs (three of each family, corresponding to each weapon type).

In comparison, the Divine/Skolver set gives Max! Curse, Max! Fire, Max! Shock, and Max! Freeze, as well as a Med family damage against Fiends (split up, that counts for three separate UVs, one on each weapon type) and a Med damage bonus for swords (which counts as six separate family bonuses on swords). Given the fact that Freeze, Fire and Shock are generally considered more annoying than Poison, and that sword-users are in the majority of players, it's fairly obvious why people consider Divine/Skolver to be superior to Valkyrie/Dragon.

I have absolutely no objection to armour without normal defence, but the thing is that you're not getting the most out of your money. All the recipes involved are readily available in Hall of Heroes. Unless you've some objection to using equipment that starts from 2* as opposed to 3*, I'm not sure I see your objection to the loadout... unless you're a hipster.

I would also add that the Electron series recipes are liable to be a pain in the posterior, since they require excessive LD grinding in order to get them, and that you may well be better off going for two different specialised damage-type weapons. But then, that would just be my opinion, and you would reasonably be able to get by with a Leviathan or CIV for many parts of the game.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 14:22
#7
Bella-Donna's picture
Bella-Donna
boop

Hello, Bella here.

FIRST AND FOR MOST, ALMOST ALL THINGS DEAL NORMAL DAMAGE! ALMOST ALL THINGS DEAL NORMAL DAMAGE! DEAL NORMAL DAMAGE! Normal Damage. normal... normal.... *whispers ...* normal...

Instead of going for all round sets, i found my own arsenal is composed of over 30 armors and helms. What I wear for one thing i don't wear for another.

For example I would never take my Skoaver set to FSC or my Snarby Set to UICMF.

But for an all around set I have my perfect set.

Divine Veil, Snarby coat and BTS.

I like a shield that protects from a different damage than your armor in the off chance that something happens and your not prepared for a certain damage type.

Let's look at some threat levels:

Chromalisk: 2/10
Wolver: 1/10

Battlepod Varies/10
Gun Puppy 4/10
Lumber 4/10
Mecha Knight 5/10
Retrode 2/10
Scuttlebot 2/10

Devilite 8/10
Greaver 9/10
Trojan 6/10
Silkwing 0/10

Thwacker 4/10
Mender 0/10
Scorcher 3/10
Demo 6/10
Knocker 1/10
Mortafire 5/10
Ghostmane Stalkers 7/10

Jelly 3/10
Lichen 4-5/10
Polyp 3/10

Howlitzer 3/10
Kat 2/10
Phantom 3/10
Zombie series 3/10
Almirian Crusader 4/10
Deadnaught 5/10
Bombie 2/10

In my opinion is better to have elemental and shadow defense over piercing and I would rather have other thing than some beast bonuses. Try Valkyrie armor with a Divine Helm.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 15:39
#8
Iapnez's picture
Iapnez
@ Bella I like your idea of a

@ Bella
I like your idea of a good all-round loadout.

Though, in your threat levels for monsters, I'd put a Kat at 4/10 and a zombie at 2/10. Why 4/10 for kat? When they swarm, they're a lot more deadly than monsters, though it's reduced to a 1 by SMB or VV.
Now, for an individual Kat, I'd say it's definitely a 2. In a swarm, the only zombie that's remotely dangerous is the carnavon because of its curse breath.

@OP Anyhoo, on topic, I'd say that having a general purpose armor set is a good starting point, but it definitely shouldn't be an endpoint. If you get a general purpose set, your first priority should be to specialize. Normally, it's not terribly hard to acquire one or both weapon slots each month (just on mist, it's about 2.5 days in FSC if you don't want to buy CE to continue the grind) and having those makes it easier to specialize.

If you do go general purpose on two weapon slots, then make sure to have two weapons of different damage types to cover all of your bases. All normal damage weapons are below-average at everything while two special-damage weapons makes you more effective against four types and average to two.

Overall, the Divine + Skolver seems to be the best General Purpose set to me, so I'd go ahead and recommend that as others already have.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 16:46
#9
Bopp's picture
Bopp
agree

Styrka, I can definitely understand wanting a single set, to save money. Like the others here, I recommend Divine Veil and Skolver Coat for armor. (Or the new Chaos set, if you're feeling really offensive.) There is really no point in getting Cold Iron Vanquisher. You might find my detailed sword guide useful.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:53
#10
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane
@Bella

Heya there. So, from what I've gathered from your post, you think normal damage defence is essential. GENIUS, on my part for deducing that.
All jokes aside then, is it sensible to just have really, really strong normal defence then? Like the plate armor set, which yeah, has an attack speed reduction, but getting a medium speed increase isn't all that hard, and if it makes you a walking fortress, perhaps it's worth it? What is your take on that?

And now, from what Bopp and Fradow have said:

I feel myself graviatating towards a bombing set, now that there is such a thing as the Hiss Kat Cowl (Which I am doing my best to acquire at the moment). That means I could get shadow, element AND normal defence while still getting high damage and high charge reduction for ALL of my weapons. That I won't get max charge reduction and very high damage is a fair trade when I have much needed shadow defence.

Anyways. Again, none of my plans are set in stone, so please let me know what's what with these two new plans. Thanks as always!
(PS -- I am making some fan art, and I'm actually very good at it too! Do I just post it in the specialized forum or is there a more complex procedure?)

-Styrka

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:27
#11
Bopp's picture
Bopp
response

In the shallow parts of the Clockworks, monsters deal mostly normal damage. As you go deeper into the Clockworks, they increasingly deal their preferred damage type (e.g. piercing for slimes). But even in Stratum 6 there is a lot of normal damage flying around. So you (almost) always want normal armor.

In a really general-purpose set such as Divine Veil with Skolver Coat, your damage protections are split evenly among the four damage type. In a less-general set such as Nameless with Shadowsun (for gunners), Vog Cub with Snarbolax (for sworders), etc., you might go for 1/2 normal protection, 1/4 elemental protection, and 1/4 shadow protection. In other words, you might trade 1/4 piercing protection for another 1/4 normal protection. I say this because normal protection is important, and the monsters that deal piercing (beasts and slimes) are some of the easier monsters in the game.

However, it should be noted that status protections (particularly shock and freeze) are often more important than damage protections. For example, if you get shock-trapped by a bunch of mecha knights, then you will die very rapidly, even if you have lots of elemental armor on.

So anyway I support your plan to make an offensive bomber set with normal, elemental, and shadow protection.

Fan art goes in the Treasure Vault forum. Cheers.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 12:03
#12
Bella-Donna's picture
Bella-Donna
Boop. Here is what I have to

Boop. Here is what I have to say. Pure protection is never as good as split protection. Plate Sets might seem tempting but it's more for T1 or T2 because T3 Normal may be everywhere, but so is everything else.

Normal protection is essential, but so are protection from the other damage types... well not piercing... piercing monsters are kinda a joke compared to other monsters.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 20:36
#13
Bossbane's picture
Bossbane
The clues are beginning to add up...

That is, I am beginning to get a clue. After yet another run in with Greavers, I decided that I really need a gun in the mix as well, and then decided that, if I'm to have a gun, I should make use of gunner armor. So, as it stands, It looks like I am going to have a:

Shadowsun Stetson - For shadow defence and med damage bonus

Volcanic Demo Suit - For elemental defence, med charge reduction for spamming status bombs/killing turrets and even a helpful fire resistance for FSC eventually

Swift Strikebuckler Shield and...

I'm uncertain what to use for weapons. A gun and a bomb, and for the gun I was thinking a Callahan to destroy fiends/and iron slug to flinch every turret and lock down fiends, albeit, noticebly weaker. For bombs...Well, if I am to go with the Callahan, I want a strong elemental damage bomb. The only one I could think of was an Ash of Agni. Inversely, I could use the Iron Slug to lock down turrets completely, which would mean that the other slot is open to comboing or for a good damaging bomb, as Iron Slug is more of just a check against speedy targets and things that need be flinched. So an iron tech/big angry bomb would work well, as could an electron vortex to group enemies together to make use of the Iron Slug's very splashy bullets.

I don't know, but whatever I choose here I am going to run with for a good while.

-Styrka

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