So, I was doing an FSC run, and one of my guild mates have a Fire brandish line (4*). The problem is, I said that it was inappropriate in FSC, and they said that they can fight fire with fire. Is that true? Also, before one of my friends told me that shock is the weakest and most useless effect in Spiral knights. He called me an idiot for investing a shock type weapon. Is that true that shock is useless and is it true that you can fight Fire vs fire?
Question: Can you fight fire with fire, freeze with freeze and shock with shock?
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 21:38
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 22:05
#2
discussed so many times
This has been discussed many times, including in the relevant section of my sword guide. As Troupe-Forums says, Combuster is highly effective in FSC. The fire doesn't affect many monsters, but the charge attack still does tons of damage, because (unlike with Glacius and Voltedge) monsters ride the entire wave of explosions. To put it another way: Combuster is just as good against fire-resistant monsters as Acheron is against all monsters.
You are definitely not an idiot for investing in shock weapons. Voltaic Tempest is great. Electron Vortex is great. Storm Driver is great. Polaris is great, when used well. Voltedge is great, even though I prefer Combuster.
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 22:29
#3
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fyi,
Shock does small AoE (Area of Effect) damage which can multiply easily when monster clumped together. Each time the shock applies, the damage will apply as well, you can easily see this with voltaic tempest bomb. Because of these reasons, some people love to use electron vortex.
Assuming you can clump 8 monster together with electron vortex, then you charge with volt edge. Let's say, 1 initial charge and 4 burst explosion made into contact on each monsters. And let's say 3 out of 5 total hits apply the shock status effect. If 1 shock does 24 damage, then each monster will have 24 * 3 = 72 AoE Damage. The damage overall since 8 monster are clumped together is 8 * 72 = 576 damage. That 576 damage is one tick of shock, and monster could have two - three ticks. Then the damage could easily go over 576.
Well, not trying to get your hope up, those calculation are only in ideal situation. Of course, 1 monster alone shocked will do only 24 damage per tick which have low dps. Shock damage sucks when monsters are not clumped. Probably, I over calculated as well >_>
Shock status effect also cancel some monster attack, the most significant benefit for me are mecha knights and almirian crusader's charge attack.
Related video made by, eh well, the owner of the video I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk9yUV_O05I
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 23:32
#4
Actually the fireburst
Actually the fireburst brandish line is not bad at all in fsc since it has the most charged knock back out of all brandish line maybe not Acheron but why would you use shadow against undead? So I doubt people will use Acheron much. The. Glacius freeze charge attack will definitely cancel the knock back because of its freeze, it's still use full but the canceled knockback will give it less damage. The same goes for shock burst brandish. The shock will somewhat help but will cancel the knock back also making it lose some damage but I can assure you the charge does more better than Glacius charge attack.
As for the combuster it still deals elemental so yes it is still useful for normal attacks nd charge attacks.
For the second question shock is somewhat useful. The Polaris is good for crowd control in clockwork though I prefer super nova since the shock of Polaris will cancel some knock back. Anyways shock is most useful in pvp in my opinion.
Sun, 02/10/2013 - 02:46
#5
I use Volcanic Pepperbox in FSC all the time. Hell, I use it against oilers all the time.
Shock can control crowds better than shivermist and damage them more than Ash of Agni, but only if you have enough of them clumped together. You will not find a better status to inflict on things in Lockdown, either.
Sun, 02/10/2013 - 03:46
#6
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Monsters that inflict a status are generally immune to that status (although there are exceptions).
That does not necessarily make the weapon useless just because it cannot inflict the status (unless it's a haze bomb, in which case the usefulness is drastically reduced). Brandishes in particular will still do a lot of damage.
The only reason I would take umbrage with someone using Combuster would be if they were deliberately using the charge to light up Oilers. And even then, it's possible to fight them without igniting, so long as you use the standard combo.
It's also possible for Quicksilvers to kill each other, since their shock inflicts damage over a small area and if they're clustered together they may shock each other to death.
It isn't possible to fight fire with fire. That would be stupid. However, the Combuster is still useful in FSC due to its high damage output, even without taking the status into account.
Shock is also one of the most irritating statuses in SK. Tell your friend to go running into Shock-themed levels whilst wearing Heavenly Iron Armour, which has Max! Shock weakness, and see how he fares.
Sun, 02/10/2013 - 05:33
#7
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To be honest, it's perfectly viable to spam combuster charge at oilers, you can kill it faster than doing normal attack only as long as you keep an eye. I usually do that when nobody is around though, to avoid everyone yelling. Meanwhile, glacius/freeze could be annoying at oilers, since it freezes then oilers got fire back from oil slicks and keep repeating for constant healing. Quicksilvers are different story.
Mon, 02/11/2013 - 07:49
#8
Your friend is unwise for
Your friend is unwise for thinking shock is the weakest status. While it has more of an effect on other players (since monsters are generally less mobile and attack less frequently), it has the potential to do massive amounts of damage (more than fire) if used correctly.
Wed, 02/13/2013 - 09:50
#9
2 cents
I know this doesn't mean much, but...
In the training hall, a 4 star shock bomb (Plasma Capacitor) kills all the scutlebots, but a 5 star fire bomb (AoA) does not.
Again, that doesn't mean much, but the point is: shock is very good.
Combuster is my preferred brandish for FSC, as it has no status effects that inhibit the movement of mobs, unlike voltedge and glacius, so monsters caught in the charge will mostly ride the full 'wave' of explosions for maximum damage. Note that fire themed mosnters are immune to all fire, shock themed to shock and so on. So you can't 'Fight fire with fire', but you can fight fire themed monsters with fire weapons. Note that bring a voltedge against shock monsters or a glacius against freeze monsters isn't as good as a combuster, as the combuster will inflict it's DoT against them, but they will still have the same effect as the combuster in FSC.