Spiral Knights - Neutralizer VS. Biohazard

Neutralizer VS. Biohazard

23 replies [Last post]

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:22

Hargbeast

I'm trying to decide which line of catalyzer to go for. The only use of the Biohazard I can think of would be RJP or T3 jellies (no gremlins, they're too fast), but I'm already working on an umbra driver. I've also heard a lot of good things about the Biohazard, though. On the other hand, with the Neutralizer, can it compete with the Valiance? I was thinking about possibly using it as an FSC and general-purpose weapon. Is its blast radius large enough to deal with crowds of slags?

Can anyone with experience with either of the two, or preferably both, give me some guidance?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 06:30

Bopp

Biohazard can hit gremlins

Try searching Google for "spiral knights biohazard neutralizer" (without the quotes). Expand the first result to see a list of many, many threads on this exact topic.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:38

Little-Juances

If your'e already working on an umbra dirver, craft another elemental-driver and you won't need neither catalizers.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:44

Hargbeast

@Little-Juances I'm already

@Little-Juances
I'm already working on another driver. I mainly am going for the catalyzers for their playstyle.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:26

Batabii

Biohazard Pros: Poison, good

Biohazard
Pros: Poison, good against Slime and Gremlin
Cons: weak vs undead and fiend

Neutralizer
Pros: (presumably) more base damage
Cons: good against nothing

Unless you're going to grind vana constantly, I don't think there's any question.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:47

Etharaes

Take my advice

If you want a 'good' side-arm, don't make it a catalyzer. A driver or valiance will suit that purpose much better. Neutralizer won't really be able to compete with valiance.

If you want to derp around and fascinate randoms though, the catalyzer lines are perfect.

Edit: If you're getting them for the playstyle, get the neutralizer. Why? Because then you can use it on anything.
2 previous posts popped up by the time I finished this comment.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:52

Batabii

What! neutralizer is WAY

What! neutralizer is WAY better than valiance

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 18:56

Hargbeast

I've read the other threads,

I've read the other threads, but I still need a definite answer.
Does anyone have both?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 22:11

Etharaes

Where's Seiran?

Seiran normally comments here. I have both atm, but only got my bio today, so I can't really comment.

I would personnally go with the neutralizer, so you can use it on any slowmoving moving mob which you want.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 23:39

Channerz

i like using neutralizer

i like using neutralizer in pvp. it is as good as a spam weapon as polaris as the bullets do heaps of knock back and travels slowly, essentially becoming a moving minefield, biohazard is similar in that respect but does less damage and poison isn't really all that useful
hope this helps :)

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 15:45

#10

Hargbeast

@Etharaes Seiran or Syrane? I

@Etharaes
Seiran or Syrane? I think I could contact Syrane, he's in my guild.

@Channerz
How is it in PvE? I avoid PvP since I suck at it.

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 17:52

#11

Veolen

My two gunner-cents.

To stick hardcore to the topic, I'd go Neutralizer. Normal damage makes it more universally usable. I think I did damage tests and it wasn't THAT far off, though the poison is nice. Realistically, this is NEVER going to be used on Vanaduke. The shots are too slow, his circling orbs block the shots too much, etc.

To expand a bit to help: If you're looking for a shadow gun, I'd suggest the Sentenza. The catalyzers need a lot of working up to a good amount of damage, so you're pretty much backing up over and over and over until you have enough charges to mean anything. Can back you into a corner unless you're real careful. And you have to put all the charges on ONE enemy, not spread over multiple, for best effect. Your best bet if you're looking for shadow damage is to get a Sent or Umbra. The catalyzers only work best when there's more than one in your party, and even then it's almost always a gimmick run just for giggles.

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 18:55

#12

Etharaes

I'll put it this way

Do you hate jellies? Would you rather have your drink warm if you didn't have to put ice cubes in it? Do you want to stuff the lichens back into a metoerite and send them back to where they came from? Do you want to send the jelly king monarchy into anarchy, and love seeing the jelly king explode? Do you want to wipe anything gelatinous of the face of cradle?

If so, then get the biohazard. Otherwise, get the neutralizer so you can play with your toy where ever you want.

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 19:19

#13

Vlad

Get a Biohazard!

Get a Biohazard! Why?
>Poison
>Only replacement poison gun is plague needle, which isn't that good.

Don't get a Neutralizer.
>Better replacement would be a Valiance.

Okay, so why is Valiance better?
>3 shot clip
>Faster (More useful in most cases)
>Has a charge that has about the same AoE of a Neutralizers. (Why make yourself vulnerable charging multiple times when you can do it in one?)

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 21:01

#14

Tenkii

¦3

I swear there was another Bio/neutralizer thread earlier, like within the last week :l

Valiance isn't very good vs multiple characters. Also, if it hasn't changed since the last big gun update, the charge attack's AOE is lame because the explosion feels like it extends backwards from the contact point (hitting only the front enemy) instead of forward (hitting a group of enemies), where it would be infinitely more useful.

Also, to clear up some misconceptions:
- Biohazard is mainly useful vs jellies, but you don't see many t3 jelly strata anymore, let alone people who want to play them. Neutralizer is a viable (though less efficient) choice for FSC.

- Vs neutral enemies, Neutralizer has a stronger base damage from charge attack (no difference from normal shots). Biohazard's is weaker, unless you poison, in which case it's a little stronger. Ex: Neutralizer's is 500 damage at d24 with max damage, Biohazard's is somewhere like 450-460?

- Both work very nicely with the Vortex bomb line. If you're the one laying the vortex, the most time-effective combo (ex: when you're fighting alongside a swordsman) that I've seen is:
Drop vortex > charge > detonate > charge > detonate
If you have more time to set up, then it's probably better to:
Charge x 3 (or 4-6 depending on number of teammates) on one enemy > drop vortex > charge... > detonate

- In PVP, Neutralizer is useless. The charge is currently bugged to do no damage (if you see damage, it will come from the normal shots), in which case it's better to use Biohazard because:
1) EVERYBODY has normal defense, so Neutralizer does less damage than everything. Biohazard does shadow damage, which does full damage vs the Skolver/Vog lines. I already talked about how to use Biohazard in PVP multiple times, so I'll just leave this here
2) Poison. Oh my, your 5* toothpick did 2.5 bars of damage to me. Ouch. Actually, it may be a little stronger, but regardless, your poisoned foe does less damage and takes a little more.

- Both guns are less time-efficient than other choices, given certain skills/stats/situations.
ex: high speed switch-shooting with alchemers is more efficient at killing groups of 2-5 zombies. Vortex+Neutralizer is more efficient at killing groups of 4-8 zombies. Valiance is decent vs 1-2 zombies. Neutralizer alone (no vortex) is not time-efficient because it takes too much time to set charges, shield bump/etc, then chase down survivors from the detonation.

In terms of safety, Catalyzers can easily interrupt-lock any turrets (though Polaris can too, I guess) by streaming alternate charge-detonations. Explosions have outward knockback, but make of that what you will.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 01:01

#15

Batabii

Don't get a Valiance.

Don't get a Valiance.
>Better replacement would be a Supernova.

Okay, so why is Supernova better?
>3 shot clip
>Huge AoE (Why make yourself vulnerable charging when you can do it uncharged)
>Huge knockback
>More damage

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 14:26

#16

Vlad

@Batabii

Both guns are better at doing their own thing, since each is superior to one another in some ways.

Also
>Valiance also has a 3 shot clip
>Faster fire rate

In fact, I don't really care whether Supernova is better or not.
>Polaris is a better replacement.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 02:21

#17

Batabii

>neutralizer has a 3 shot

>neutralizer has a 3 shot clip also

So I don't know why you brought that up at all.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:41

#18

Hargbeast

I'm not getting any of the

I'm not getting any of the Pulsars. They spam all over the place.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:34

#19

Vlad

So which gun are you getting?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 21:15

#20

Hargbeast

I'm leaning towards the

I'm leaning towards the Neutralizer.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 01:43

#21

Veolen

Good a choice as any,

Good a choice as any, considering it's two catalyzer lines. Just remember, their bullets are super slow. And the normal shots are pretty much worthless. Get a feel for how the catalyzer works before bringing it into the middle of a chaotic firefight. It's a bit of a gimmicky gun.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 02:39

#22

Tj-Frozen-Shades

Poison eh

Well remember, poison helps if there are healers. and everyone know that.One more thing from wiki, if you damage a POISONED enemy, your damage increases, and if a knight is poisoned, its damage reduces into one-third (which refers to LD, and dont ever bring caly lines to LD, i mean something more like other wep.) Thats all we know, or maybe I know*

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:37

#23

Batabii

Actually, at least on

Actually, at least on Biohazard, the uncharged shots do more damage than sentenza's (possibly more than umbra driver, but I haven't tested), so they're still useful in a pinch. For example, it's good to use on Darkfang Thwackers when you can't get in a good charge without being blocked.

Search

Neutralizer VS. Biohazard