Spiral Knights - Shield Strength Tests

Shield Strength Tests

32 replies [Last post]

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 09:47

Thinslayer

I tested the strengths of several shields in the Advanced Training Hall over spikes and fire grates. Both deal normal damage here. These are the shields I used:

Aegis, lvl 10, 8.5 bars normal def, 9 bars health
Ancient Plate, lvl 7, 10+ bars normal, 9 bars health
Volcanic Plate, lvl 10, 10+ bars normal, 9 bars health
Stone Tortoise, lvl 1, 6.5 bars normal, 10+ bars health

These are the results:
Aegis: spikes, broke in 7 hits; fire, broke in 4 hits
Ancient Plate: spikes, broke in 10 hits; fire, broke in 5 hits
Volcanic Plate: spikes, broke in 9 hits; fire, never broke
Stone Tortoise: spikes, broke in 7 hits; fire, broke in 5 hits

Bonus: CoA & GOS broke over fire grates in 7 hits

What's significant about these results is that, although the Stone Tortoise had a good 2 bars less defense than the Aegis, it broke in about the same time, and didn't break as easily over fire. Also note that Ancient Plate has more normal defense than Volcanic Plate, as evidenced by the fact that it took longer to break over spikes than did Volcanic Plate.

Any thoughts?

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 09:55

Xenonguard

It is an unfair test

Because you, unless it is a typo, used a four star Stone Tortoise instead of an Omega Shell.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 10:04

Bopp

thanks; please do more

Thanks. Please do more of these tests. I'd like to see a ton of shields tested against a ton of hazards.

Unstable-Ordinance, the "fairness" of the test doesn't matter. He's just trying various shields. If a 4-star shield breaks more quickly than a 5-star shield, then that's to be expected. What's interesting in this test is that the 4-star shield lasted just as long as (or longer than) a 5-star shield.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 10:09

Thinslayer

That's the point.

I know it was an unfair test. That was the point. Look at how significant the differences are:

Stone Tortoise is 4*, and has far less defense than Ancient Plate and notably less defense than Aegis. But it broke in the same number of hits over spikes as Aegis, and broke in the same number of fire tics as Ancient Plate. That's some serious health Stone Tortoise has, and it's certainly nothing to sniff at.

Imagine, then, how strong Omega Shell must be.

@Bopp: I certainly plan to do more of these tests. I will only be testing normal+status damage in the Training Hall, so the usefulness of the data will be limited.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 10:52

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

APS FTW!

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 11:13

Thinslayer

@Oatmonster

I always suspected that Ancient Plate Shield had more normal defense than Volcanic Plate Shield, seeing as that was the case for the armor sets, but now it's official. Time to hit FSC with it!

APS FTW!

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 11:53

Mohandar

Notice that the shield heat

Notice that the shield heat levels are different. While it is nice to see more data, I don't think this is very helpful. Good data should be replicable, and items at heat levels other than 0 or max are difficult to replicate.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 12:44

Thinslayer

Understood

I understand that, and at some point would like to repeat the tests with the shields fully leveled.

I'm trying to figure out how to calculate the health and defense of a shield:
First, determine whether the testing monster uses pure or mixed damage. Ensure that it is pure.
Determine how many hearts an attack removes.
According to experiments, each bar corresponds to 40 hit points.
Have the monster strike a shield with no defense against it and one with good defense against it. See how how many hits it takes to break them; do not let the shields recharge.
Ensure that one of the above shields has the same normal defense as Stone Tortoise or Omega Shell.
Compare the normal shield with Omega Shell.

The data will be skewed if the chosen normal shield resists the monster's status.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 13:07

Bopp

definitely heat

Oh, I hadn't noticed that they were heated unevenly. Thinslayer, when you go to do comprehensive tests, please ensure heat level 10 on everything. On the other hand, the lack of heat just makes Stone Tortoise's durability even more surprising, right?

Sat, 03/02/2013 - 00:22

Thinslayer

Exactly.

I did some more tests, but a couple of the involved shields were still not fully levelled. The Stone Tortoise cannot take a direct hit from Vanaduke's mace at level 9, but it will stand up to Vanaduke's charge. I got the Stone Tortoise and Ancient Plate shield fully leveled now, so I can begin recording the data whenever I am ready.

But I think the data I have on the shield is good enough to say that its health generally compensates for its lack of specialized defenses. Remember, it broke in the same number of hits on spikes as did Aegis, and broke on shadow fire and elemental grates at the same rate as the Crest of Almire.

That's not to say it's really superior to specialized shields, however - the Crest broke after 5 zombie strikes (according to a friend), while the Stone Tortoise broke after only 3. But it still doesn't deserve the bad rap people on the forums have been giving it, IMO, and it rarely broke under normal usage.

Sat, 03/02/2013 - 05:32

#10

Ezio-Of-Almere

Are u sure that the stone

Are u sure that the stone tortoise was lvl 1 ?
And if I have an volcanic plate shield , does that mean I will never be burned !?!?!!
And can u do a test with the defences of dragon scale shield and grey owlite shield ?

ty :)

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/75787

Sun, 03/03/2013 - 01:04

#11

Thinslayer

Tests are planned.

@Ezio: my stone tortoise leveled several times during the test, but the data wasn't meant to be very accurate anyways. I just wanted to get a feel for the shield's strength. I'm working on a Wyvern set, and plan to test the shield as soon as I am able. As for the Grey Owlite, I can safely say that it will guard you well against most elemental hazards. I will guess that it can withstand about 1-3 more specialized attacks than a similar shield lacking one of the Owlite's defense types. A good comparison would be CoA vs GOS against shadow fire; the GOS can probably take, I'll guess, 5 hits, while the CoA can only take about 3.

In FSC, you will probably survive fire grates and shadow fire better with the GOS than VPS. The VPS is downright amazing in the Vanaduke boss battle, but just okay elsewhere.

Sun, 03/03/2013 - 01:40

#12

Batabii

That's funny, because when I

That's funny, because when I use stone tortoise in ATH, it takes one more hit than BTS. Why would Aegis be just as strong as ST?

Sun, 03/03/2013 - 10:21

#13

Thinslayer

A couple things.

The Advanced Training Hall deals only normal damage, even on spikes. So I'm not at all surprised that the Stone Tortoise took more hits than the BTS. Now, in FSC, spikes deal pure piercing (supposedly). Aegis has lots of piercing defense but a normal health. The ST has no piercing defense and unknown health. It survived just as long on spikes at T3 as did Aegis. So this would indicate that either 1) ST has an insane amount of health or 2) spikes deal part normal, and ST still has a ton of health.

Sun, 03/03/2013 - 17:47

#14

Misten

Just want to add in that you

Just want to add in that you guys might want to consider there is such thing as shield regeneration where shield with larger health might regenerate more absolute health (if the regeneration is % base) within the same time while not under attack.

The dmg to volcanic plate shield over fire grate is less than its health regeneration, that why it never break.

Meaning ST might not have THAT much more health, the increase gain in health regeneration might contribute to it. Therefore, it might not be that useful in actual clockworks.

Sun, 03/03/2013 - 22:16

#15

Thinslayer

No regen during damage.

I actually accounted for regeneration. Any tests that let the shield regenerate were discounted; that's why I had some trouble getting data on zombie swipes, since the zombies tended to get bumped away after each attack, giving the shield time to regenerate.

I do not believe shields regenerate while under attack. I think it takes a moment or two for them to begin. I also think you're incorrect about Volcanic Plate; I have tested several 5* shields against ATH fire grates (including Ancient Plate, Aegis, ST, GOS, & CoA), and only VPS fails to break. Regen would have to vary by normal defense (instead of star level or health, if it varies at all) in order for your explanation to work, because the only difference between VPS and GOS & CoA is the normal defense. ATH fire grates deal normal and fire damage, both of which the VPS defends against in greater quantity than CoA or GOS, and hence it shouldn't break as fast. This has been confirmed.

I also recently tested the GOS against the Aegis in FSC. My squadmate's level-10 GOS breaks against shadow fire in 5 consecutive hits, whereas the Aegis breaks in 3. My friend's unleveled Wyvern Scale Shield breaks in 4 hits.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 05:04

#16

Il-Mono-Il

Nice

Curious to see more info. I'm leveling up my Drake Scale shield to make a Omega Shell for costume/collection, so I'm happy to know that isn't useless the way I think xD

Also, I have a Dragon Scale shield 5* w/ heat lvl 10. I'll try to help collecting data in FSC (maybe in how many hits it break from shadow fire)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 06:11

#17

Zeddy

It's also possible that VPS has more fire defence than GOS. We can't really know for sure.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 06:36

#18

Il-Mono-Il

Really

Like the Normal defense bar on the APS?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:17

#19

Heavy-Dragon

I'm gonna keep on saying this until I'm tired.

Omega Shell is Underrated. (OSU!)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 12:50

#20

Thinslayer

Re: fire on VPS

From what I've heard and seen, the maximum fire defense on a shield is, really, the maximum. A shield with the maximum fire defense will never break from pure fire attacks alone, e.g. slag breath. Back when the slags would just keep breathing while you stood in their path, my GOS and CoA would never, ever break so long as they just stood there and weren't under any other attacks. I think that beyond maximum resistance has proven useless.

@Heavy-Dragon: I'm starting to come to that conclusion myself. ^.^

@Monocelha: Please do take data for Dragon Scale shield. Can you tell me how many hits will break it on 1) spikes, 2) shadow fire, and 3) fire grates?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:30

#21

Il-Mono-Il

Of course

I'll collect data when log again, probably today, after midnight.

Quick question: are confirmed that the fire grates does elemental dmg plus status? Or is normal + status?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 13:54

#22

Thinslayer

@Monocelha, Re: Fire grates

Until I learn otherwise:

T1: normal+fire
T2: normal/elemental+fire
T3: elemental+fire

Thanks!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:24

#23

Il-Mono-Il

Oh, luck!

I've logged past 20 minutes, and a friend of mine invited me to the D27 in FSC. Here are some data:

*Fire grates: the shield break in 5 hits.

*Shadow fire: the shield break in 5 hits.

*Spike traps: the shield break in ... 5 hits! O.o

Looking at that, seems like the spike traps does piercing damage, not normal.
The Dragon Scale Shield (heat lvl 10) tank spikes and fire equally. Tested many times.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 14:55

#24

Thinslayer

Thank you.

Thanks; that will be helpful. It's interesting that resistant shields tend to resist up to 5 attacks.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:51

#25

Flamearc

In ATH with Omega Shell, it

In ATH with Omega Shell, it took 7 spike hits and 5 grates

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 17:57

#26

Flamearc

In ATH with Ironmight, 8

In ATH with Ironmight, 8 spike hits, 5 fire both this and omega are Level 10

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 18:55

#27

Il-Mono-Il

Wow

Same as Stone Tortoise?
Are you using the public Training hall or the Guild one? If is the guild one, what tier?
(I don't know if this matter so much, just asking for cience xD)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 20:31

#28

Etharaes

Unfortunately

Unfortunately we can't rely on this data. Why? Because in the ATH my swifty took 6 hits to break, level 10, no UVs. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't tank that well in T3.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 20:33

#29

Thinslayer

@Etharaes

Interesting. I shall have to test this myself.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 12:07

#30

Lettuce-Sauce

I have tested Dragon Scale Shield

With it's Elemental and Piercing defense, it is quite useful as an all-purpose shield, except you have to compensate for the lack of normal defense (which you don't have to worry about in T3 since a majority of the monster does purely piercing and elemental.)

The only thing good about elemental defense are the constructs and gremlins. Well only gremlin scorchers and mini gremlins does elemental damage, while the other does normal

Ok so its easy to explain. In ATH, the Dragon Scale was destroyed in 4 hits by grate and floor spikes. But in Vana's first floor, it got over in 7 hits on floor spike and fire grates. And under Slag breath it never broke.

It turned yellow by trojan attack.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 13:42

#31

Zeddy

@Entyre

"(which you don't have to worry about in T3 since a majority of the monster does purely piercing and elemental.)"

No, this is wrong. The only monsters doing pure piercing or elemental are pretty much polyps, gun puppies and knockers for some reason. If your shield has normal and elemental, it'll defend a construct or gremlin melee attack than if it only had elemental.

Wed, 03/13/2013 - 19:52

#32

Comander-Chelonian

Thinslayer "(But it still doesn't deserve the bad rap people on the forums have been giving it, IMO, and it rarely broke under normal usage.)"
I like the stone tortoise. At first, it was just because I am a very enthusiastic reptiles and amphibians fan, and because of the high health. I was not sure what to expect, but now I love it, and when I get 5* gear, I'm getting the omega shell. My mind is made up.

Search

Shield Strength Tests