Spiral Knights - Should I change sets?

Should I change sets?

14 replies [Last post]

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 03:07

Hahkun

I am, of course, terribly new. The set I have grown fond of is the Magic Set; this evening I managed to max out my heat on the set (and all the rest of my 2* gear). Since I have just reached Rank 5-1 and have been informed that it will get much harder than it already is (which is hard to tell so far, seems to go from hard to simple every mission), I think it time to upgrade or switch.

Right now I am aiming to eventually obtain the Divine Set (which seems to have the best stats of the Magic Armor area), however I want some input on to whether this is even useful, like I think, or if it's actually terrible of an idea for the meta game and/or, eventually, PvP.

If it is good, what would be recommended for the set in terms of weapons, or a shield? Right now I use Cutter (of which I am unsure of what to eventually upgrade to) and mainly stick with the Frost Gun, but know that both and their upgraded sets are all likely pretty bad.

My apologies if this actually belongs in the New Recruits section.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 06:15

Bopp

need normal defense

In the shallow parts of the Clockworks (Tier 1), monsters deal primarily normal damage. As you go deeper into the Clockworks, monsters increasingly deal their preferred damage type (e.g. piercing for slimes). But even in Tier 3, there is a lot of normal damage. In particular, the Vanaduke fight on depth 28 is loaded with normal damage. So you do not want to wear the full Divine set. Instead, consider mixing and matching sets...

You've asked what weapons you should use. This is a personal choice, and there is no right answer, and you can change your mind any time you want. Here is the process that I recommend, when planning a loadout of equipment:

A. Decide whether you want swords, guns, or bombs, or a mix. Read the relevant guides: my sword guide, the Gunslinger Guide, and/or the Bombing Guide.

B. As you read the forums and wiki, focus on the 5-star items, not the 2- and 3-star items where you currently are. This helps you avoid getting trapped in alchemy lines that you don't want. You should select the 5-star items you want, and only then look back in their alchemy paths, to see how to get them.

C. For armor, focus on the armor sets that give offensive bonuses to your intended weapons: Wolver (swords), Gunslinger (guns), Demo (bombs), or Magic/Chaos (for massive offense on everything, but bad defense). Divine Veil and Grey Feather Cowl/Mantle are also worth considering, if you want to buff up your defense.

D. For swords and guns, coordinate your damage types. That is, if you're going to be using two or more swords and/or guns, then try to make them be distinct non-normal damage types. This idea is explained in the starting sections of my sword guide. Bombs are more idiosyncratic in their effects (knockback, vortices, statuses, etc.); read the Bombing Guide for help on those.

Your thread is fine in this forum; you just need to do a little more work, to make your questions more specific. :)

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 06:19

Spiral-Cowboy

Gotta shoot 'em all

Let's see...

Divine isn't that good as a set, as it has no Normal resistance. Even in Tier 3, there's still lots of Normal damage going around, so you'll take much higher damage from most enemies. People mostly combine Divine Veil (Divine Mantle has no damage bonus against Fiends) with a Normal/Piercing armor, like Skolver Coat, for resistance against all damage types.

Grey Feather set is a jack of all trades, as it has good resistances and has resistance against Shock and Fire, the most dangerous status effects, but has nothing else. I don't really recommend it unless you want to do UIMF a lot.

Ah, Chaos set. It's probably THE most overpowered set in the game, as long as you don't get hit. It gives you Damage Bonus: Very High and Charge Time Reduction: Very High for EVERYTHING, but it has no defense and terrible status weaknesses.

Most common PvP weapons are Final Flourish and Gran Faust, with a lot of Shock going around. This means Normal, Piercing, Shadow and Shock resist. Nothing gives all of that, so you need lots of UVs, but a Normal/Piercing armor is your best bet for starters.

You can't even upgrade Frost Gun, just throw it away. Also, do you like using a particular weapon type? You don't need to use a Sword and a Gun, contrary to what most new people think. You can go pure Swords, Guns, and Bombs. Most people chose to do so with a sidearm for special cases though, like using an Argent Peacemaker against turrets. Also, don't use Normal weapons unless you use them as a sidearm. Using a Piercing sword and a Elemental gun, for example, means you don't deal reduced damage to any enemy type, and deal super-effective damage to 4 out of 6 types. I don't recommend Cutter for that reason, even though it's fun to use it.

There are many options for a shield. Tell us what your future goals are (For example, for lots of FSC farming, get Grey Owlite, or get Barbarous Thorn Shield if you're using swords), and I'll help.

TL;DR Tell us which weapon type you like using, what your future goals are, get Elemental/Piercing/Shadow weapons, throw Frost Gun away.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 07:53

Zeddy

Magic set is a lot better than its cousins Skelly and Jelly. Where Jelly gives resistance to stun and sleep; and Skelly gives resistance to Poison and Freeze, Magic protects against Shock and Fire. These are the two most dangerous statuses to encounter in the clockworks. Magic eventually upgrades into Chaos, which is the most powerful set in the game. Being able to kill anything in one or two seconds more than makes up for the status penalties.

That being said, if you're new, you might want to combine Chaos Cloak with Divine Veil. This'll grant you very high damage versus fiends, medium damage versus everything else using any weapon, very high charge time for every weapon and positive resistance to shock, fire and curse. In addition, your will have a moderate amount of protection from normal and shadow damage as well as a healthy amount of elemental defence.

Replace your Frost Gun for a Cryotech Alchemer if you'd like a gun you can freeze things with. Wild Hunting Blade has a charge attack that can interrupt things (conducive with Chaos, which lets you charge things faster), but Dread Venom Striker swings faster and can poison things.

For a shield, Gray Owlite is a good start. Omega Shell if you're indecisive.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 16:11

Hahkun

@Bopp For 'mixing and

@Bopp
For 'mixing and matching sets', would it be wise to go with Zeddy's idea of mixing Chaos Cloak with Divine Veil?

A.): I actually have your guide bookmarked and have been meaning to read it, now I have;
When it comes to Shadow damage, I am unsure as to which sword to choose since both have a high chance of giving the user a curse (as you noted), why is Acheron better in your opinion if it has a higher chance of cursing the user, which could be bad if you're up against gremlins or slimes? On that note, I do have to say I largely prefer swords due to their simplicity and making it easier to attack enemies without leaving yourself open (as bombs and guns do due to charge time (reloading, planting bombs, etc).

B.): Right, thanks for the information; that was something I was already looking into to ensure the paths taken were 'good'.

C.): I'm still torn on Chaos or Snarby/Skolver, might be best to aim for all three and test, or would it be a bad idea to do so...?

D.): I suppose my answer to A) ties into this.

Thanks for the help, Bopp!

@Spiral-Cowboy
Thanks for the armor info, I'll definitely keep all of that in mind. I actually knew that they don't 'upgrade', I have no idea where I was going there (probably lack of sleep talking). Like I said to Bopp, I am probably sticking with swords, which was my main idea in the first place.

I don't know what 'FSC' is, I am assuming it has something to do with Shadow Lairs (Firestorm Citadel?). I saw a guide on these sorts of shortenings of words somewhere on here or the wiki but forgot to bookmark it. I don't really have a set goal other than to get good at the game while enjoying it (which ties into getting good for me); farming works, yes, but it would be good to eventually be able to do PvP.

@Zeddy
Thanks for the armor advice! Seems to be just what I was looking for, really. You did say, though, "if you're new", so what would you consider decent for someone late or post-game?

I plan on ditching guns, but will definitely keep that in mind. Grey Owlite was exactly what I had in mind, but wanted to be sure as to whether it was a decent or good one to use, thanks.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 16:42

Bopp

response

A. You must have mis-read about curse; Acheron doesn't inflict curse (on monsters or on you). The reasons why I generally prefer Acheron are explained in my sword guide, but to restate them briefly: Acheron's combos deliver better damage per second than Gran Faust's combos in most situations, and Acheron's charge attack is powerful and fast, while Gran Faust's charge attack is powerful and slooow.

C. Keep in mind that Snarbolax armor is hard to get (requires a Shadow Lair trip).

FSC means Firestorm Citadel (see Abbreviations). When Zeddy said "if you're new", I think he meant that a full Chaos set might be a little dangerous for a non-expert player. So he was suggesting mixing Chaos with something to give you better defense.

You're welcome for the help. Enjoy.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 17:01

Hahkun

A.) Oh, my bad. Thanks for

A.) Oh, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up, I'll add it to my list, then.

C.) I actually knew that already, but it is always a good idea to have variety.

Thanks for the abbreviations link, and that was what I thought Zeddy meant.

Tue, 04/16/2013 - 22:15

Ka-Kuzu

What is your in game name,

What is your in game name, would be fun to help you out :)

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 05:44

Fehzor

If I were you, I'd get one piece of chaos and one piece of divine. Specifically divine veil and chaos cloak. That gets you very small defenses vs all of the important things, and a ton of bonuses.

If you do go with this set, go for things with nice charges, like brandishes if you like swords, alchemers if you like guns... if you want to get something with jelly gems go for divine avenger- it has a nice charge that will benefit from your global ctr med. Likewise, avoid things that need ASI to really shine but don't really use ctr- like antiguas and polaris and flourishes. No one uses the charge on those. All bombs are definitely on the table if you're using chaos as well, which can give you a ton of utility.

Chaos+divine veil will drastically cut the cost of trying out new class combinations, whereas before you'd have to craft say, a gunner suit, now you'll just magically have enough stats to pull off being a gunner on the fly.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 06:09

Zeddy

"flourishes. No one uses the charge on those."

Why is that, anyway? Flourish charge is as powerful as Sudaruska's.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 08:36

#10

Bopp

I use it

I use the Final Flourish charge against trojans, silk wings, greavers, and crowds of beasts. As I've mentioned in the past, I've seen it kill as many as five healthy monsters at once (three wolvers, two gremlin menders). I don't use it much against devilites (although I haven't re-evaluated them since they were nerfed).

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 10:45

#11

Spiral-Cowboy

Gotta shoot 'em all

Sorry for the long post, I just want to tell every detail.

Divine Veil and Chaos Cloak should work, as you'll have lots of Elemental resist with some Shadow and Normal, some resist to Fire, Shock, and Curse, along with very good offensive bonuses (Damage Bonus: Medium, Damage Bonus vs. Fiends: Very High, Charge Time Reduction: Medium, combining for CTR: Very High on Level 10 weapons). Freeze and Poison aren't important at all, don't worry.

Your Shield options are Barbarous Thorn Shield, Grey Owlite Shield, Omega Shell, and, if you can stand not having a shield that defends, Swiftstrike Buckler. BTS gives Damage Bonus: Medium to your swords, Grey Owlite is highly useful for Firestorm Citadel, the main Tier-3 farming level, and most other levels, Omega Shell is great all around against everything (But beware the status effects, they break it fast), and Swiftstrike gives Attack Speed Increase: High for EVERYTHING, but has no defenses. Make your choice!

If you'll stick to swords, get swords for all damage types, along with an Elemental gun against turrets (Elemental is super-effective against Gun Puppies and Howlitzezs, and deals normal damage against Polyps). If you'll get Divine Veil+Chaos Cloak, I recommend getting an Elemental Alchemer for the ridiculously powerful charge attack (Other choices are Argent Peacemaker, and Polaris, but the CTR mostly goes to waste on those), and Acheron (Gran Faust's charge is too unreliable, it takes too long to charge, and can curse you). I recommend;
-Divine Veil
-Chaos Cloak
-Final Flourish/Barbarous Thorn Blade (FF has a dangerous, but ridiculously powerful charge attack, while BTB has a safer charge that deals more area damage)
-Elemental Brandish/Divine Avenger (Brandishes have more single target damage, are faster, and inflict a status effect, while DA has more area damage and is safer)
-Acheron
-Elemental Gun

Also think about Vortex bombs, they are ridiculously powerful for getting enemies together to, for example, hit them all with your Brandish charge.

About crown farming; for Tier-2, you need to do lots of Royal Jelly Palace runs.
-In RJP, there are many, many Slimes, along with some Constructs and Silkwings (Fiends).
-Nothing there resists Elemental, only Silkwings resist Shadow, and everything except Silkwings resist Piercing.
-Slimes deal Piercing, while Constructs deal Elemental (Silkwings only heal), and there are no status effects.
-For getting to Tier-3 fast, I recommend Elemental set, along with a Nightblade and an Elemental gun.

For Tier-3, your farming spot is Firestorm Citadel.
-In FSC, almost all enemy types are there, but the sheer number of Zombies mean an Elemental weapon is a must. Only a few Wolvers in the 4th level resist Elemental anyway.
-Fire. Is. Freaking. Everywhere.
-Blitz Needle is an extremely popular weapon in FSC, and for a reason. The charge is simply devastating, able to One-Hit KO Trojans when used properly, and is THE best gun against Vanaduke. It's quite dangerous to use though, as it roots you while shooting.
-An Elemental sword AND an Elemental gun is pretty good, as you'll need the gun, and the sword can kill zombies easier.
-The Vanaduke fight can be pretty hard. He deals loads of Normal damage, loads of Elemental Damage, and Fire. His body is weak to Piercing, while his mask resists everything except Normal, and is immune to Shadow altogether in his final phase. A common strategy is freezing him with Shivermist Buster to make him much easier. While frozen, he's completely vulnerable to your Blitz charges. Water his mask whenever possible, and smash him with your best weapon (Or a Normal damage sword, like Leviathan Blade).
For FSC runs, I recommend:
-Divine Veil
-Chaos Cloak
-Grey Owlite Shield
-Elemental Brandish/Divine Avenger
-Elemental Gun
-Blitz Needle
-Filler

I'm not that good about PvP, but it's a completely different job, all those Flourishes will murder you without Piercing resist, and without Shadow and Normal resist, Gran Faust will. Weapons like Blitz is completely useless thanks to invincibility frames. You should focus on farming crowns to get PvP specific gear, as your Clockworks sets won't work. You can try going for Skolver Clone mode (Skolver set, Final Flourish), or something else.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 12:04

#12

Fehzor

Let me rephrase that- no one crafts a flourish so that they can charge it. They make it so that they can do the first hit, the swipe, and perhaps the other hits if required. But you don't make a flourish so that you can spam the charge everywhere, because it pushes you forward and gets you hit unless you go out of your way to avoid letting it. Something like a brandish however, can be repeatedly charged and shot. With practice, the charge on argent peacemaker, flourishes, etc. can be put to good use, although aren't going to make or break the weapon much of the time.

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 13:53

#13

Hahkun

@Ka-Kuzu Hahkun @Spiral-Cowbo

@Ka-Kuzu
Hahkun

@Spiral-Cowboy
What is a good elemental gun to use? And what do you mean by 'Elemental Brandish', a Brandish with crafting upgrades? I'm not really getting anything in my searches for that.

Which Alchemer do you recommend? I was thinking Shadowtech (for now) since I can't get Shadow sword yet for RJP. However, you place Alchemers on the same tiers as Polaris, which is much higher (in terms of star rating), why? What would truly be a good Alchemer to get once I am around 5* gear?

Wed, 04/17/2013 - 14:03

#14

Bopp

response

There are four 5-star Brandishes. Three are elemental, and the other is shadow. The three elemental ones differ only in their charge attack status: fire, freeze, or shock. See the "Elemental" section of my sword guide (linked in post #1 above).

If you're going to play with a sword and a gun, then a natural choice is for the gun to be elemental. See the "Mixing Weapon Types" section of my sword guide.

Polaris isn't higher-star than the alchemers; they all go to 5 stars. The people giving you advice here are thinking entirely about 5-star items. See point B of my post #1 above.

You have six choices in elemental guns. There have been many threads comparing them. Try searching Google. Here is the short version:
* Argent Peacemaker: Easy to use, decent damage, terrible charge attack.
* Polaris: Easy to use, decent damage, high knockback; really a crowd-control weapon.
* Nova Driver: Harder to use, but higher damage in the hands of an expert.
* Storm, Magma, Hail Drivers: Like Nova, but trade a little damage for status.

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Should I change sets?