Spiral Knights - This new leveling system is a deal breaker.

This new leveling system is a deal breaker.

20 replies [Last post]

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:52

Yatzic

I've been a semi-regular player of this game ever since it first hit Steam. You know, the kind of guy who would play it for a month or two, get bored then return after a few more months once I had time to refresh. During that time I would also buy 20 bucks worth of energy whenever I needed it to upgrade my gear, especially for the traditionally-pricy tier 4 and 5 pieces. True I wasn't the most profitable customer, but still Sega and Three Rings has made a fair amount of dollars off of me.

Now I've returned to this game to check out this new update, and this is my brief message to the game developers: changes need to be made or I'm quitting this game for good. Don't get me wrong, many aspects of this update I find great. Unlimited elevator use, shared pills, the battle sprites, these are all fine additions to the game. Where you've lost me, however, is fire crystals. I've only played a couple days now and I now have six seperate pieces of gear which, nevermind upgrading to the next tier, I can't even move from level 8 to 9 because I just don't have enough fire crystals. So of course I've tried grinding, running the arcade several times and each hour+ trip I return with maybe six of them? and after more of those clockworks trips than I care to count, I finally have enough crystals to *attempt* a forging to level up, only to fail and lose all my crystals, and my hard work. I'm sorry but the only term for that is "bullcrap." Under this new system I feel trapped. I'm gaining no heat, and my progression has grinded to a halt. I feel no sense of accomplishment because I'm NOT accomplishing anything. This is the antithesis of what an MMORPG should be. I quickly realized that I'm not having nearly as much fun with the game anymore because the game is now nothing but a grind for fire crystals which almost never drop anyway. So here's my list of suggested changes that need to be patched into the game.

- Remove the chance for failure when forging to the next level. I cannot emphasis this one enough. It is crushing to the soul to have my hours of work and grinding amount to nothing, and this HAS TO GO. If this aspect alone went, I could tolerate all the other problems enough to stay in the game. On a side note, I can think of one other RPG where leveling up wasn't a guarantee but only a spin of a wheel like SK's new forge system, and that's Vagrant Story. Vagrant Story, incidentally, was an awful game because of this.
- Incrase the drop rate of fire crystals. Getting only 3 or 6 crystals per a stratum is unacceptable.
- Reduce the number of crystals required to forge. Asking for 25 tier five crystals just for a 75% chance of failure is completely unreasonable.
- Allow us to fuse lower-tier fire crystals into higher levels. I'm sitting on dozens of tier 0-3 fire crystals which I'm doing absolutely nothing with right now.

So either suggestion 1, or a mix of the other 3 suggestions need to be patched into the game soon, or I will saying my final goodbyes to Spiral Knights in the near future. Good day.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:57

Ndognine-Forums

Please refer to the billions

Please refer to the billions of other complaints about the Forge. Its the way it is for a reason. Slows down progress to counteract no CE for crafting and free elevators.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 12:58

Bopp

we know

Yes, many people dislike the fire crystal part of the update.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 13:54

Capt-Chopper

derp

You either have levels and crafting costing energy or the forge system. You cant have both.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 14:04

Niichi

Out of curiosity, what difficulty are you on? 3-6 crystals per stratum seems awfully low, but I don't know if that's just the Elite setting affecting things.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 21:28

Hexzyle

Now all the "ermagerd remove energy" threads have been replaced with "ermagerd remove forge" threads lol.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 21:40

Xwert

baaaa, i'm turning into a chromalisk!

Here, go here...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/85965#comment-767194 instantly to my comment!

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 21:53

Hero-Of-Cheese

Cheese!

Lol at Hexzyle's comment. It's so true. Now to actually be helpful.

The crystals, to my understanding, only drop from prize boxes. But keep in mind that while you get them from boxes, the crystals have a CHANCE of dropping, so don't expect them to drop all the time. So the the best thing to do is to find levels that have a lot of them. I hear the compound levels don't have much boxes, so avoid those. Treasure Vaults have a bunch of them, as well as Clockwork Tunnels because the danger rooms have a good amount of boxes in there, so that's good. And be sure to play on elite. You can get them on the other difficulties, but with a lower drop rate.

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 21:56

Xwert

boing, i'm a chromalisk!

Yay someone else finally put a wacky subject =P

Mon, 08/12/2013 - 23:33

Mr-Freckles

YES!!!!

Finally someone who makes perfect sense and who articulates their point clearly with suggestions, instead of just yelling "get rid of the forge!".

I whole heartedly agree with the OP and Yatzic is correct.

Suggestion 1: I agree
Suggestion 2: PLEASE
Suggestion 3: Just wait until you have a 5* item at level 9 which needs 100 radiant crystals to level up...
Suggestion 4: I personally think this is a great idea, I have at least 500 crystals I will not be using ever, as well as dozens of orbs I also will never use. Please let us either trade, sell, or convert them into other rarities.

And to all the other replies on this except for Niichi, and Hero-Of-Cheese, are not being helpful at all, complaining about the complainers doesn't help anything (yes I know I am now ironically complaining about the complainers who complained about the complainer). Please post something useful next time. Sorry if that sounded offensive I do not wish to be mean to anyone. (The reason I said that is because many people start to get upset and rant about how mean I am)

"I quickly realized that I'm not having nearly as much fun with the game anymore because the game is now nothing but a grind for fire crystals which almost never drop anyway." THIS is a perfect statement and I wish I could have said it better.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 00:39

#10

Paweu

"On a side note, I can think

"On a side note, I can think of one other RPG where leveling up wasn't a guarantee but only a spin of a wheel like SK's new forge system, and that's Vagrant Story. Vagrant Story, incidentally, was an awful game because of this."

There was no levelling in Vagrant Story, don't be delusional. The thought of considering the stat bonus rolls after the boss fights (you don't even mention the elixirs, which worked exactly the same though the stat was fixed, just the amount of points not) was levelling just shows that you haven't actually played the game yourself and just heard or read someone who couldn't understand the game mechanics so they attached to something as silly as not-neccessary-to-finish-the-game-stat-bonuses. In Vagrant Story, your weapon damage type was more important that 100 STR that you could gather over few playthroughs and that was very apparent if you only understood the game mechanics.

Also, there is a guarantee of levelling up on the forge, it's just you people are so spoiled that you can only ask for hand-downs.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 03:45

#11

Remove-The-Forge

Hey, people that don't like

Hey, people that don't like the Forge. There's most likely more of you that read the forums, but don't act and post on other threads that are just as good because you don't wanna get involved with this.

THERE IS A QUITE CLEARLY A PSEUDO-MAJORITY GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THE AGAINST THE FORGE PEOPLE AND THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE SUPERIOR. AS CLEARLY SHOWN IN THIS THREAD AND OTHERS.

As for you people that were mentioned above? Most of you are probably nolifers, since there are people that have thousands and thousands of crystals, yet the update wasn't that long ago and the only way of doing that would practically be playing SK as the only thing you do.

Also:
Also, there is a guarantee of levelling up on the forge, it's just you people are so spoiled that you can only ask for hand-downs.
So... does that mean if they're spoiled, they can only ask for the bottom two chances? huh?

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 06:17

#12

Doctorspacebar

Pistol is best weapon in TF2

@Cirno: You discredit your position every time you post something like the comment above. Want to know why I said that?

Well, have you ever heard of "ad hominem"? (Must... resist... the urge... to mention... politics...) It means "to the man" and, in a debate, refers to an attack on a proponent (or proponents) of an argument, rather than the argument itself. It's also a logical fallacy. Even if your opponents are "nolifers", it does not make their current argument any less valid. So instead of constantly insulting people, why don't you try formulating an actual argument, like the OP?

@OP: I'm sorry you don't like the Forge. However, I prefer it to the old crafting system. Three Rings is a business, and needs to make money; whether energy is spent directly on Fire Crystals, or used on energy gates to get at the treasure boxes inside, they make money off of it. If they got rid of that, their main method of revenue would rely entirely on upgrades, extra levels, but mostly Accessories. However, they love the game too much to make it too much of a pain to progress.

Here's a comparison. Do you know what you have to do in RuneScape (another free-to-play game) to progress? You grind. Quests help a little (and were really the main draw of the game for me, when I still played), but for the most part, you click the same targets over and over again, especially when it comes to skills like Mining and Fishing.

Do you know what you have to do in Spiral Knights to progress? The best way used to be FSC (preferable to grinding Fishing, but still missing something), but now the way is to go into the Clockworks, fight monsters, collect Crowns, and get treasures. In other words, you progress, not by grinding the same thing over and over, but by playing the game as it was originally meant to be played.

You progress by playing the game. Better than grinding Fishing, right?

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 13:21

#13

Abanoth

Universal fire crystals would be nice.

Having to choose between helping my friends in t1-t2 and getting nothing but crowns or going to t3 to level my 5* gear is my only real beef with forge system. Also if OOO thinks I'm going to pay 700 energy for 50 measly radiant types there's a bridge in FSC I'd like to sell them.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 04:31

#14

Wafflz

@Doctorspacebar OMG thank you

@Doctorspacebar

OMG thank you someone who understands what i am trying to say.. now instead of grinding the same 5 levels over and over again (not playing a game... being a robot) you can actually progress by playing and seeing all that the game has to offer!!!!

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:09

#15

Remove-The-Forge

@Doctor EVUL!!!1 WI MST PIRGE

@Doctor
EVUL!!!1 WI MST PIRGE EET FRUM LEIF

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 16:11

#16

Doctorspacebar

Pistol is best weapon in TF2

Purge it from... Leif? So you're keeping me out of a Viking movie?

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 16:29

#17

Feline-Grenadier

DURP...?

I tried out SK on a new Knight post update, and progress...is a lot faster. But then again, I might just be having a good time with Chance.

I usually go on Elite arcade runs, and if I'm stopped at the Tier 2 sub-town, I join a friend to go deeper. That being said, that may be the reason why I'm not progressing as fast as I would like, but I'm not all business in Spiral Knights.

Anyhow, I rarely find an MMO that doesn't have a moment of grinding. SK would be completed within the day if it weren't for Forge, and now that mist is down the drain, I can actually have fun for once running through the Arcade as opposed to staring at an energy bar to recharge.

That's why I support Forge.

Now, since Chance and Luck both hate you, I'm not sure what to say with that. If you're running on Elite around the Tier 2 depths, you'd usually find around 9 or more each level. If you have the party up for it, take a Danger Room for those prize boxes. Most of the time, when you're on Elite, you'll more often than not end up with a Vanguard party that'll carry you to the Emberlight subtown.

If all else fails, go back to grinding JK for those prize boxes.

Thu, 08/15/2013 - 20:57

#18

Terrty

OOO correct yourself

OOO please fix yourself i agree with this guy totaly ive been working on my chaos set for weeks!!! i recently acually gave up and agreed i will just buy ce

Thu, 08/15/2013 - 22:45

#19

Agent-Fungoose

Heat amps are useless now. We

Heat amps are useless now. We need a crystal amp!

Fri, 08/16/2013 - 02:23

#20

Round-Shinigami

Converting fire crystals,

Converting fire crystals, both up and down (breaking larger ones into smaller ones, combining smaller ones into larger ones, uniting weaker into stronger ect) sounds a very reasonable way to treat permanently bound untradeable fire crystals, which are a must for item crafting and upgrading.

Trading would be another nice way of getting rid of extra crystals.

As for getting 3-6 fire crystals per stratum... that sounds very very small. I get 9-15 per level, or more. I play mostly vanaduke on elite, though. Try higher difficulty. Also try levels with more treasure boxes, because only treasure boxes contain fire crystals.

No offence but:
"this is my brief message to the game developers: changes need to be made or I'm quitting this game for good"
This will be laughed at by any developer. Unless, you're a grand sponsor, that is.

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This new leveling system is a deal breaker.