When doing woods, palace, munitions factory, or citadel for example players should have the option to heat items similar to the way players can heat items at the start of every arcade depth. In order to prevent gear swapping the heat forge could be placed at the the start of depths instead of a footlocker.
Edit: I forgot about prestige missions... This would be a decent idea for them too.
Not sure about this getting out of the rut business you are talking about. Players leave boss runs only momentarily to heat items and get invited to their boss run again which is just a tedious endurance of load screens. If anything this can cause confusion and groups sometimes fall apart not to mention how annoying it can be for those players to lose their vitality packs, health capsules, and vials.
All in all there is simply nothing beneficial about it unless you consider a cluster of 20 players at the haven load in spot beneficial for some strange reason.
hexzyle has it on the money.
We don't need MORE reasons for people to grind bosses ALL DAY LONG.
In fact, considering you already get boss tokens, I don't see any reason why they also have to pay more crowns on average. How about OOO buff arcade payouts?
This has been brought up before. I responded to one of these suggestions with a compromise.
I'd be happy for forge stations to be placed in boss levels only if every single treasure box was removed at the same time. This would allow players to level up items during boss missions but if you want the actual items needed for levelling then you need to go play some arcade or non-boss missions. Shadow Lairs would probably be an exception to this since the price of entry on them is pretty high anyway so we'd be unlikely to have lots of players endlessly grinding them all the time.
Niichi, ugh no! That punishes people who just want to play the game.
Forge stations would make no sense to be -inside- the enemy lair, anyway.
Folks going 'I only wanna do boss' need to mentally adjust to elevators being free now. They no longer need to evaluate how to spend their Mist most Crown effective. If they still only want to do bosses, it's their own choice, no reason to whine about 'gimme convenience', when it's their play style that's at fault.
Forge/Arsenal stations inside the enemy's lair Make No Sense! You can not go back behind the barrier.
If they choose the emergency eject to Haven and then return, it's only fair that their pick-ups evaporate.
I'd not mind if every level everywhere paid 900cr on average.
If you want higher up levels pay less than deep down ones, put the 900cr at D:14 and substract/add 25cr per level from the average. That gives you 650cr for D:1 and 1200cr for D:28.
Put normal at 10cr per depth less, and Elite at 10cr per depth more or something.
(The 900cr come from 6-1, Axes of Evil, first level paying 900cr on average - effectively from 800cr to 1000cr - before the difficulties update. It's D:14.)
From what I gather some of you are saying it's good people can't heat during boss levels because players should go to the arcade to heat items. The problem here is that this is not actually happening. Discussing what people should do to heat items is irrelevant rather this is about what people ARE doing and the behavior needs to be accommodated or completely abolished. Either no tedious work arounds to heat during boss runs or no heating at all.
I couldn't say for sure exactly how many players will actually stop doing boss runs to heat items in arcade but here is the thing... Items heat a lot faster doing vana runs for example and there are a lot of people that still do boss runs to heat items despite not having direct access to forging. In a nutshell these people either leave the groups halfway through causing burden on their party or leave and return in between levels. This happens at a frequent enough rate that it is rather noticeable.
I really wish you guys could come up with a better argument other than "we don't want people to do boss runs"
Other than in terms of people breaking the rules, dictating how someone else chooses to play and enjoy the game is really lousy.
I agree it's frustrating to deal with people who do nothing but boss runs all day, I've had arguments with people over it in my early days (and I wish there were more elite not vana parties in the system currently) but I'm not going to hold it against them for playing differently from me, and they shouldn't be punished for it either.
As it stands if you do a boss stratum, you get, tokens (which many players don't even need anymore) a lot of worthless heat, and less loot than if you had done a less time consuming and much easier clockworks run. (Well you also get the change of pace of doing it if you mainly do clockworks).
I feel like they should just take heat out of boss runs entirely, then at least people won't have the expectation of being able to use it.
I know it's wrong, but the payout of boss levels is so ridiculous that everyone farms only FSC and when they receive an invitation to do a random arcade they get impressed by seeing a single dust bunny :v
You know what, fine, you can have your forge. But lock it behind an enegy gate >:D
Make them pay 250 energy to activate a Forge station in an enemy lair and presto, if they want to heat stuff there they should pay for it. since is an enemy lair, so they need to "transform" the forge station to their side with the energy. >:D
yeah pretty expensive, but you guys want everything in FSC, the reason why OOO did this (and i highly agree with them) is to make players try other levels and explore all the contents they did and not just become another vanaduke souless zombie farming there until the end of the time.
Arcade is the best place to heat up items now, arcade is alive thanks to that. if you dont want that because you cant live outside FSC because you never have the patience enough to learn how the other enemies atttack because zombies are brainless and trojans just a brute without mind, then pay to use the enemy forge. pretty simple as that.
though i sitll dont agree that "Boss lairs" should have Forge option, players need to get out of FSC, also i agree with the comment of cobalt, OOO should remove the heat on boss runs so people would stop those complains of " im afraid to get out of FSC please gimme a forge station so i can be safe on my bubble". (and mostly because there not reason to have heat in a place that dont have a forge)
but i guess everything going to change once the "arcade redux" comes along with all the ideas Nick have in mind for the game... so is just matter to wait.
thats the point, Using forge in a boss run should be a luxury, not to give everything in silver platter to players. they want something that will speed their "process" to heat their weapons, then they have to paid. simple as that. because if not, then arcade become again the empty place because if we set a cheap price then, everyone would be again at FSC because still the best place to farm.
If arcade is the best place to heat items then why would a forge in boss levels change that? FYI I could care less about FSC but I do care that players are incentivised to consistently leave boss runs to heat their items.
Read Again:
Arcade is the best place to heat up items NOW, arcade is alive thanks to that
FYI on arcade era, boss runs were always the best place to heat stuff, but you have to go trough the first 4 floors before reach the boss, so in the end probably you would heating up a weapon / gear to 10 quickly (also depending on which level you choose before the boss level). but that not mean you can heat stuff in other places (always danger room leave lot of heat)
then mission era hit, and then since they offer you the boss run WITHOUT do the 4 previous level then why i would bother to go arcade if i just can take a shortcut to the boss level and ta da, i dont need to waste 20 minutes on the first 4 levels, and i just keep looping and looping and looping the mission. so yes THAT would change that again, add forge station to the boss runs then there not reason to give another use to arcade because now each boss level have a forge station where i can HEAT UP quickly the weapons. so yes Sir that would change that. making arcade dead again.
Cobaltstarfire, I don't care for people thinking they have any say in what others should do. If someone chooses to do X over Y, then they just have no basis to complain that the game doesn't give them everything, everywhere.
Them yelling for being able to Forge in Boss levels is as if I'd start yelling to gimme gimme boss tokens in any random level I play.
It makes no sense to have Knights Stop Stations of any kind in the middle of a monster level.
Boss Lairs are like one big monster map, you can not get back behind the barrier.
If you choose to do the emergency eject to Haven and then return, it's only fair that your pick-ups evaporate.
I don't care if other people go to bosses or Arcade. My party is closed wherever I am because I don't want to have some random guy spoil my enjoyment of the game. When I want company, I ask friends.
Removing heat from boss levels would punish people who just play the game.
(You won't find me doing FSC more often than once every few months. I go to Twins, JK, or Snarby for Tokens, not every day, or even every week, but while I'm there I want the heat that's there.)
Sweet-Hope, now that's a nice idea. (Just you thinking to decide what other players should do does seriously spoil it. FYI: before Missions, people with Elevator Pass ran through the levels to Basil and invited their friends then. I had to ask them to please let me see Stratum 5, a mystery with unknown wonders back then.)
And I can't help adding the somewhat sarcastic...:
Can I also pay some Energy to get Boss tokens in any random monster level?
Calculation as per what I'm willing to pay for the Trophy Token materials: 1E per Snarby or JK Token, 2E per Twins Token. Or just give me a direct jump to Twins Bosses (1 Token per fight). It'd be soo convenient.
(Just to highlight what the gimme Forge yellers are saying.)
"thats the point, Using forge in a boss run should be a luxury, not to give everything in silver platter to players. they want something that will speed their "process" to heat their weapons, then they have to paid. simple as that. because if not, then arcade become again the empty place because if we set a cheap price then, everyone would be again at FSC because still the best place to farm."
After all I have said you have still failed completely to interpret what I am saying. PEOPLE ALREADY DO USE A FORGE IN BOSS RUNS. They simply leave the game to go to haven and get invited back!!!!! In all likely hood they wont even come back and simply abandon their party for a new game....
A forge will not influence whether or not people are able to forge during boss runs because "again" they already can!!! The problem is people leaving the games to heat in town. It's annoying and generally disruptive to the rest of the party and that is the issue that needs to be fixed. A forge in boss levels will add nothing new rather it will lessen this disruptive behavior many players have taken to.
That's the risk you take joining someone else's party. They control a rather good amount of the party, being party leaders. Start your own runs, and tell the people you don't support this heating method. They'll find someone else. Or you don't have to tell them, just not invite them back.
On the other hand, you could be that guy that doesn't want to wait for a party to fill up. Take the risk with the convenience. But don't cry about the risk. Its like crying about failing a 40% chance of forging.
Just to clarify something, the reason some of us are trying to "dictate" what others play is to try and create/maintain more open parties running levels other than FSC all the time. Unfortunately, Three Rings don't seem to want to alter the actual payout of FSC itself so we'll take what we can get if it means dissuading players from grinding the boss levels forever. If people choose to drop out and in of FSC parties just because they don't want to heat their items elsewhere which would allow forging per floor then they should have to take the consequences of that. Whether those consequences be the current system of losing pickups and disrupting parties or one of the various suggested costs/consequences brought up in this suggestion topic.
However, I am certainly against just flat adding forge stations without changing anything else. I don't care if a number of people always play solo or friends only anyway. What I do care about are the people with open parties who would gravitate more towards FSC once again if it became the number one place to heat items again. Now maybe some people do still use boss runs for heating, but I know some people who used to use FSC for heating runs no longer do so it's not really a case of "nothing has changed with the amount of people using FSC to heat" because that's simply not true. Even if it's not 100% of people who have changed their habits, it's definitely higher than 0%.
Maybe the arcade redux in development would make this worry a moot point, but until we see what this has to offer then I have to go with my initial thoughts and request additional changes should this go ahead.
No. One of the benefits of the Forge is it actually gets people out of the stupid rut of doing boss runs day in, day out.