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Um...

9 replies [Last post]
Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:30
Sirius-Voltbreaker's picture
Sirius-Voltbreaker

Ok so I have been studying the attack patterns of several weapons.

Piercing swords.
Ok so the first hit should actually do little damage since it is a swipe to the right, that you in real life would not do much...
Hammers
When stunned, the hammer dash should not even do damage since you do damage to whatever you hit with the weight you put one the enemie when you dash at a high speed.
Heavy swords
Ok so when you side step and attack with these weapons, to inflict the last hit the way you did, you have to put your sword from where it was before you started the sidestep or at the end of the first hit

Not too sure about this, I might not even know what I'm talking about, but just some things...

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:33
#1
Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder

._.

Move this to The Arsenal please.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:34
#2
Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder

Double post.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:36
#3
Sirius-Voltbreaker's picture
Sirius-Voltbreaker
o sorry!

Silly me.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:56
#4
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

See, the hammer does damage when you slide because the sheer masculinity required to propel your arse forward at high speeds causes any science and reason that you may have surrounded yourself in to spontaneously combust on contact with any sane knight, thus causing damage.

On a serious note about Flourishes, you can still cut with a thin blade. Normally the blade would flex, and it'd be like running a sharp wire across the flesh of the target. It'd be more like a wip than a blade, at least that's my experience with Sabre Fencing.

*EDIT*
Clearly Battlegrinder is a more experienced fencer than I am.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 15:53
#5
Battlegrinder's picture
Battlegrinder
@Sirius-Voltbreaker

You're a little off when it comes to the piercing swords. To establish my qualifications, I'm a fencer, and consequently know quite a bit about how rapiers and other long, thin swords work.
The various piercing swords in Spiral Knights are very similar to fencing sabres, and in fact the first part of the combo is a classic side cut (the next two moves are standard lunges, though the exact moves the knight uses are foil-style lunges rather than sabre lunges). However, the blade of a Flourish is much thicker and heavier than that of a fencing sabre, and both swords will bend very little when the hit a target, even if you use a slicing motion rather than a thrust. An Épée would bend, but the weapon being used by the knights is clearly not an Épée (the bell guard is all wrong). Even fencing swords can draw blood under the right/wrong circumstances so the much harder, much thicker, sharpened edge of a Flourish could easily do so.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 19:40
#6
Sirius-Voltbreaker's picture
Sirius-Voltbreaker
Ooh....

Wow two fencers.....
Anyway, Travel I understand what you mean... The force of the booster of the hammer skims the player, or the energy of the weapon is used when dashing which does damage.
Also I was also thinking of this, since i study swords quite a bit. At the end of a floourish, at least the Final flourish, Furious Flamberge and the other one, it is quite thick, and also the side of the blade is sharp inflicting damage. Also the blade doesn't flex putting more contact and force into the swing if you hit someone.
However wouldn't flourishes then do more damage at the tip of the blade?

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 20:20
#7
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

I wouldn't be surprised.

But SK is always one of those games where you swing your heavy sword against an immovable object, and your sword passes through said object. It's hard to say. I know with Katanas, your optimal cutting point (to get the best speed vs weight ratio) is 1/3 down from the tip of the blade. Closer you are to the tip, the more speed you get but the less weight behind the swing. The opposite is true near the hilt. Against lightly armored/unarmored (like say.... beasts and fiends), you'd probably do just fine near the tip. Against heavily armored targets (like say Constructs), you're probably not going to be doing that well.

Random sidenote, the Flourish 2* sword actually looks more like an Epee than anything else, while the Final Flourish, Fearless Rigadoon, and Furious Flamberge are clearly Sabres.

And I agree that you should be doing mainly thrusts with Flourish type swords... but that being said, two out of the three swings in the combo are thrusts.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 20:50
#8
Battlegrinder's picture
Battlegrinder
@Sirius-Voltbreaker

I'm not sure what you mean. As I understand the question, you're asking if the point of the blade would do more damage then the sides? If that's your question, then the answer would be "it depends". Rapiers are still stabbing weapons first and foremost, and their ability to injury on a swing is more or less an afterthought. For most swords, you want to hit with the part of the blade that's around halfway between hilt and point (the exact reason has to do with physics and torque and how the blade is forged and shaped, but I don't have time to go into the full explanation). The Divine Avenger and Levi are great examples of a heavy duty slicing and hacking sword: they have a big blade with a lot of mass behind it, so they can cleave through their target. A rapier just isn't big enough to do that. Something like a katana or a clamore could do both, but that's because its very sharp, shaped a very specific way, made out of the right material, and can be wielded with 2 hands so you can put as much power into the swing as possible.

I suspect the only reason flourishes hit as hard as they do is because of superior metallurgy and physics (you can impart a lot more force with a swinging motion than you can with a stab, and the weight of your armor would add momentum to a swing instead of creating inertia to overcome like it does with a stab). However, a surface level slice will generally be less dangerous than a penetrating stab, especially since the sharpened edges of the sword will open up more wounds as the blade goes deeper, in addition to the ones inflicted by the tip.

Edit: ninja'd. We seem be thinking the same thing a lot of the time.

The 2* flourish always looked more like a rapier to me. The bell guard on a epee is still much bigger and more hemispherical, while the 2* flourish bell guard looks much lighter and smaller. Though it does look more like a epee then the rest of the line does.

It also occurred to me that the reason the third strike of the combo does more damage then the first 2 is because you do a full lunge rather than just a thrust (and thus put more force behind the attack) and because the first 2 strikes left your target gazes enough that you have time to aim for a more vulnerable point on the final hit.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 21:38
#9
Blue-Flood's picture
Blue-Flood

This arguement for the flourish is actually pretty old.. dating back to when they first came out. It'd make sense if the first swing did normal damage, or didnt even have a slashing arch altogheter since it is supposed to be more of a fencing blade. Back in the day when there were no heart trinkets to wear for the general public, this would have been the difference between taking 2 or 3 hits and still living while wearing shadowsun.
Since we can all have much more health now, the arguement is still valid... there are just so many other things that should be tweaked before this methinks.

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