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Dear Three Rings (That title and no flaming? Heresy!)

5 replies [Last post]
Sun, 01/26/2014 - 03:21
Destroyerofthenort's picture
Destroyerofthenort

Well, three rings, the end of january is nigh to being upon us... and before you blot this or shrug it off, let me make it clear that this is NOT about how long you have taken, that will likely get extended in a complaining sense... in fact, i despise the people that actually expect estimates to be reality. No, what i am here to talk about is, as a novel concept, making it longer. I am fully and readily prepared to get dragged out and killed as an example for this, but i feel that you have actually and simply not taken long enough. Quite the abstract concept... a free thinker... kill it... right? Maybe not.

Spiral Spy exists, and simply the presence of the TOS doesn't entirely discourage the use of the great program (easily operated safely by simply using right click, copy, and paste on the folder with a repeat after each update). Without spoilers (even if at this point it has circulated through every thread and already been spoiled with leaked images TWICE), i will say i am a proud user of the program. I am sorry to say this for hopefuls, but you had better not be hoping to release this.... come the last opportunity this month... midweek this coming week. Just don't. Not unless you have a big 'ol external drive loaded up with all the stuff. Just give it a skip, it isn't done. Period. Why?

Models for many of the promised features of the update still do not exist. Besides that, even noting visually dissociated tweaks and patches in the code, if there was anything near what one would hope for from this, what you could do, the impact on balance and the things you can do to fix a huge assortment of major problems on (while not the owner of the least balanced item in the game, even under my beliefs of next to every weapon having some niche) what is perhaps the single most shakily balanced class of weapons in the game with such things as the pulsar (just the entire goddang line. All of it and it's branches), toxic needle, blitz needle, neutralizer (still plagued by things like the mender shield, and still with every bit as woefully few usage opportunities in non shard squad style groups due to the immovable skolver clone), the recently added obsidian carbine (still doing just as much damage as sentenza for no real reason whatsoever), all of these. I would have expected to see, in order to patch all of that, at least a few "behind the scenes" updates with ABSOLUTELY no new models, no new visuals, and no new textures anywhere to be found in spiral spy that could be classified as the "behind the scenes" work. Do you not think we notice these small details, or that we can find this? I do and can at least, and to me it is a bit unsettling to think that one would actually still even hope for a release this month... not because i don't think it possible in this time... because i don't think it should. Ever. Particularly after the fact that you took an extra month beyond that initial stated estimate with such gall to say that it was to smooth out edges and add stuff (nothing new to report since then, by the way... at all. Besides about 5 now circulated armor reskins). I would hope that these are production times becoming progressively longer for quality assurance through long and perilous discussion over what should be done. Yet somehow i can't help but think it may just be unofficial production hiatuses in which the update may simply be forgotten... perhaps even to throw to the blame of player rushing in the case that stuff goes awry. But to take my theory bits as well as my hatred for the fact that our patience was thrown away on promo items and cast both aside, my complaint is not on the fact that you put it off to the last minute in the sense of the act... rather,in the sense of the potential result. To still hit a january mark, you would need to compile code for fixing those many poorly balanced things which simply haven't kept with the times, draw up entirely new concepts for missing features, model them, make them conform to the model bones, stat them, and do all that is needed to make "guns a viable option for use as a primary weapon" and to "rebalance" as well as "offer opportunities for gunners wishing for protection from all forms of damage". All of that... to remind you, the time frame left on that? 3 days.

Please, as a gunner, do not do this... do NOT give us a short end of the stick with bombers (which i'd like to see them come off of soon as well). Don't kill guns with something jury rigged together that i am supposed to accept as the new and balanced way when it likely nerfs ALL the wrong weapons in all the wrong ways. Do NOT screw this up. Push the release, make some danger missions, and take as much time as you need to make this right. I say we give you an entire year to reorganise under the new dev; re-examine the files, fork out proper, QA tested, efficient, seamless code; make the neccesary models beautiful, well textured works of art that Ian is proud to look at as his; and make this update truly great. Starting today. You have the opportunity to make one of the best updates in years... don't let it ride past for the sake of making another half year through overhaul just to meet our expectations. Just don't. Forget entirely about doing this all this month, or even this year. Because if it goes out how it shall end up basing from it's current state, then you will be throwing another hastily slapped together Alpha testing stage work out passed on as finished, then throw it on a testing server only to not listen to our requests to take longer on fixing key issues and rush it out the door after affirming it doesn't blow up.

Take all the time you need. I am happy to wait in lieu of a game killer of a 3 day monstrosity. I would in fact take pleasure in waiting for the new guns and armor, provided you return the favor with an unforgettable and likable update to shock us all with it's quality. You made the game to begin with, now show us you've still got it in you!

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 04:44
#1
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

well, I might as well give my opinion about the behind the scenes changes.
we all know about weapon imbalance, but seeing tables like this makes you think. some forumers (might be skeptic but I don't remember) made an hypotesis about why did weapons have equal damages spite the fact being on different classes. so, the idea is that there is a base damage on all weapons (something to prevent you to deal negative damage, since the least I could deal is 2) then a modifier to tell you how much the weapon really deals. now, this number is, most probably, a fixed amount (see shard nerf, or acheron buff, which gave them equal damage per hit of other weapons), which is why OOO cannot balance well things.
so, the behind the scenes changes could be to get rid of the fixed amount part. that's why I'm expecting a major rebalance patch when the gunner update hits. of course now that the gunner update is delayed, there's plenty of time to playtest everything, so I expect a test server sometime in the future.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:08
#2
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Thunder-The-Bright

Not me. I've been working on figuring out armor/shields (past what others have currently done - which is a lot). I've got a couple hypothesis about shields and armor, but none on weapons.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 09:51
#3
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I fixed the OP so that it'll be readable.

Purpose

Well, three rings, January is coming to a close... and before you completely disregard this or shrug it off, let me make it clear that this is NOT about how long you have taken... in fact, very much the opposite. No, what I am here to talk about is as a novel concept, making it longer. I am fully and readily prepared to get dragged out and killed as an example for this but I feel that you have actually and simply not taken long enough. Quite the abstract concept... a free thinker... terrible, aren't I? Maybe not.

Spiral Spy is far too easy to get and the TOS does little to prevent us from using it. I will say I am a proud user of the program and from what I have seen, the gunner update isn't ready. So unless you've been holding out on us and have the content on an external hard drive or something, don't release it-- just give it a skip when next Wednesday rolls around.

Balance

Not only are many of the models missing, but the impact on balance that this would have is enormous. While I might not own the full spectrum of underpowered weaponry Spiral Knights has to offer (despite my belief that there must be a niche for such things), I do believe that there is reason to balance them-- especially handguns, which include outrageous balance issues like the blitz needle, sentenza vs carbine, pulsars, and catalyzers.

I would expect to see several balancing factors applied in this update. Several "behind the scenes" patches changing not models, but balance. We as players notice these small details, and it can be a bit unsettling to think that one would still even hope for a release this month. Not because it isn't possible, but because rushing content would likely lead to blatant disaster.

In conclusion

I fear that balance will go overlooked. I fear that the delay is only for a few models, and that the gunner update won't measure out. I fear that the players themselves will rush the update. I fear that the developers will listen to them, and miss the mark for an early release. The time frame for this release would be literally 3 days.

Whatever you do, do not skip this vital portion of the game. Do not release sloppy code, and do not skip out on quality testing. It is things like this that make the testing server flame you.

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 17:52
#4
Akuryo's picture
Akuryo
o....o)

well, Eury did update us that it'll be ready when it's ready. though it's professional to do things on sched i think it's more healthy to listen to one's natural flow plus, if youre going to do a half-assed job on something, better not do it at all or at least wait till a touch of genius miraculously imparts on you (inspiration).

everything is art

Sun, 01/26/2014 - 19:26
#5
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

I want to hope that after the widespread leak of the new gun images that they'd start putting the new stuff on a non-public version until they're ready to do another public test.

But who knows.

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