We should have two handed guns, that do more damage than handguns or even swords.... but have a few limitations.
1. No shield. You cannot use a shield while using this weapon. Switch away to use it.
2. Longer reload. MUCH LONGER RELOAD. It should take a few seconds at least.
3. Chance to miss. A small chance to miss enemy, this chance becomes greater the closer the enemy.
This is suspiciously similar to dual wielding in general, which has been suggested so many times you could take them and slap them as a shark's set of teeth. Why not search for your thread already being suggested like 30 times?
because they all are disguised as "Dual-Weilding ERMAHGOSH, AD TIS NIW OOO R ESE"
"DUAL WIELDING DEEERRRP
If it wasn't used the first derpbillion times, what makes yours so special?"
~Malkalack
Chance to miss. A small chance to miss enemy, this chance becomes greater the closer the enemy.
Surely the chance of missing becomes smaller the closer the enemy.
@ Arcknightdelta
No, it is to discourage using it in close combat
Long range gun with chance to miss? Catalyzer.
If I could use 2 of them at the same time, it's like having a Catalyzer party, but nobody else is invited!
Then I wouldn't really push this idea. Surely if your weapons are going to miss point blank range that's going to be very annoying. Have you played Bastion? The way the long range rifle works in that, that's what you should base your design on. Then it could work. It doesn't have a normal shot. You have to charge it to fire. Once the charge is 100% unclick and fire a high damage single round shot. I mean high damage, like one shot a zombie in d27 fsc style damage.
...you should remove the idea of that 'missing' close ranged enemies; how can you even argue that you can miss a horse that is 20 cm in front of your nose?
'Long guns' grant higher accuracy in reality as well as higher reloading time. You can keep this concept that long guns are heavy guns but also slow weapons.
I am thinking about something that shoots further than a valiance and grants higher damage than a Magnus but without its recoil; but in Exchange it leaves you vulnerable for a longer time than autoguns - maybe tripple the length? Arguable.
This would give this gun a nice distaste if it is used placelocked right aside an enemy.
About that 'no shield' part I can't agree - it could be just another kind of gun without leaving the shield away (I see no necessarity for that anyways).
Honestly the idea of a single shot high damage long range gun is very appealing to me. Yes we would have to sacrifice reload time but it's a good balance. Using this type of gun would be awesome as a sort of support/cover player. Atm I go full out attack so a gun to slow things down will be very welcoming.
But! Who's to say we won't be getting something similar. OOO said we will be getting a dozen new guns. So you never know. Maybe even a bow type weapon. Anyone played Call of duty Black Ops 2? Well just imagine a Spiral Knight take on the bow used in that game....Awesome!
A lot of the first posters obviously don't know what he means.
Arc here gets it perfectly - the OP wants a SINGLE gun that takes two hands to use, not 2alchemerskthxbyespamspamspam. The way I see it, this opens up the possibility of:
- Miniguns (No, the blitz is not a minigun, it looks like a tommy with the barrel chopped off)
- Shotguns
- Snipers
- RPGs
- Grenade Launchers
YES! I think that the rifle should be incompatible with a shield, but do a high amount of damage. Maybe a bigger clip, but lower MUCH lower reload speed.
But... camera.
What's the point of having a long range gun if you can't see what you're aiming at?
Not that I'm in support of this idea (I'm alright with guns' current range), but IMO this would be a better design:
___
- No effect on equippable items (doesn't prohibit shield).
- Charge shot only (no normal shots), like a bomb.
- No reload, since the delay is in the charge*.
- While charging, moving the mouse moves the screen (your character will face towards wherever the center of the screen is - this gives the possibility of looking so far ahead that you cannot see your character - IMO a fine tradeoff for the range you're asking for)
*Balancing the distance/power with charge length, you can either give it a long post-shot animation (like blitz charge), or treat it as a single bullet gun that forces you to reload after each shot, so you can at least move (even if slowly) instead of being stuck in one place.
___
Other factors that can be balanced:
- Fast bullet speed with piercing ability
- Slow bullet speed with extra effect
- Camera movement should be blocked by where bullets can actually travel (disallows 'peeking' across solid walls)
@Mushy although I would disagree that blitz isn't a minigun, here's a random quote
"Blitz is your shotgun" -Pipipipipi
i like Seiran's concept
i also am not for or against the implementation of long guns
id like to suggest the thing about shielding with two-handed weapons: while using two handed weapons, a knight has his/her shield at her back, unactivated. when s/he decides to shield, he/she raises his/her weapon up in front in defense position. this would signal the shield from the back to deploy the barrier therefore acting as a normal shield would
Some people said this was another: "Double weapons GIMME NOW" Thread. It's not. It just needs to hands, without a shield. Some similarity, but a huge difference. Get it right.
It's pretty much the same thing as dual wielding, since it does more damage, with no shield. And Nick already said that a no shield wasn't a very good idea.
Just saying no defense is not a good idea doesn't mean it's not possible. Youtube has no shield runs
yeah. I can also say that we don't need weapons since there are no weapon runs on youtube.
those are hardcore guys that like challenge and they get it. fact is, shielding is one of the major parts of this game, it's the only actually useful defense to have. it's one of the first things you have to learn while you are still a newbie. it's not possible to balance out dual weapons while keeping this in mind.
does that mean I can say remove all everything except proto because there are all proto runs on Youtube?
Malkalack didn't put a disclaimer into the original post stating that he understands that there are plenty of other Dual Wielding/Two Handed threads out there, nor did he even state that he's willing to (and he's barely tried anyway to) attempt to come up with solutions to the large number of issues surrounding the whole ordeal.
That's why no-one's taking him seriously. That's why no-one takes anyone seriously when they suggest Dual Wielding, because everyone loves to suggest it, but no-one's willing to actually put in the effort to make it viable so that they can get supporters.
Long-Guns are inspired by muskets, and everything that entails. I think that slow reload and high accuracy would add to the experience of Spiral Knights. Why have pistols without regular guns?
Because you aren't addressing a single issue we've said about the lack of shields, or any other flaw existing in any dual wielding mechanism.
The problem raised is no shield. Until that problem is answered, why should anyone take this seerusly? Just trying to sum it all up.
On the other hand...
The idea of more offence for less defense isn't flawed. It isn't perfect, however, and needs fixed.
Lastly, I think serian's idea is very good. +10 points
I do not like the change to miss on normal guns, although it will go good on blitz