Spiral Knights - Make CTR less powerful (or just remove it), also sprite cooldown tweaking

Make CTR less powerful (or just remove it), also sprite cooldown tweaking

4 replies [Last post]

Fri, 03/21/2014 - 19:49

Draycos

CTR is way too powerful when it comes to deciding whether a charge-based weapon is boring or the best thing since sliced bread. Bombs are outright reliant on it. It's crazy. There are some charge attacks that are really weak, and others that are really powerful, and CTR removes charge time as a balancing mechanic. Brandishes might actually be reasonable if they had their intended charge time and not their realistic charge time (with UVs and such.

I personally think there's a huge difference between getting a 20% damage boost and attacking 1.3x faster than there is when you cut down over half your charge time.

I'm thinking just removing CTR from UVs and most gear in general would be a good idea, but keeping it for bombs since they aren't intended to scale off of ASI.

People would be compensated for this change in some way if they had any of the trinkets or UVs, excluding bombs, but I'm not quite sure how that'd be done, given how much of a gamble UVs can be.

______________________________

I'm also going to branch this out to psuedo-necro an old suggestion of mine regarding Sprite abilities: [Battle Sprite] cooldowns should not be universal, instead giving the used skill a full cooldown but other skills half of their normal cooldowns (if a skill has more than half of its cooldown, and another skill is used, nothing happens to that particular skill).

-This would be intended to make Sprites reward creative play, using multiple abilities to their own strengths, as opposed to only ever using a single of the three abilities.
- -Keep in mind this is also considering multiple other changes to make Sprites have more of an impact on gameplay; you can read the full thread here, with the most recent ideas near the end of the thread.

Fri, 03/21/2014 - 19:54

Pipipipipi

Behold, the evil squares take over the world!

Question: Will we be able to switch between using charge attacks and normal attacks?

Fri, 03/21/2014 - 20:04

Draycos

Well, yeah.

I'd figure it'd be another keybind- or it could use the same "hold attack" commands as now, but I'd much prefer a separate keybind.

Fri, 03/21/2014 - 22:25

Amnimonus

This might not work

I might have understood your thread wrong but let me assume I got it right, you want to replace charge time for guns and swords with a cool down timer that is separate for each weapon and it varies between weapons.
Some thing are missing from this thread such as how long would these cool down be, such as a range (example 5-30 seconds) and it also does state if there will be a cool down reduction to replace the medium charge time reduction already on existing weapons.

If what I said above is correct ...-1
The sound more overpower than the current charge system if the charge time are too low and by too low I mean 12 seconds or less this would devastatingly too powerful for people with 4 weapons, Literally just use one charge attack from one weapon then just switch to the next weapon and use its charge attack, this make a glacuis,voltage,combuster,and DA charge possible (which would leave next to nothing alive give you lots of time for cool down even if the cool down were 30 seconds long).
This method would also make the recon in lock down class overpowered because they would be able to sneak into enemy proximity and unleash a voltage charge to the face.

But let say all weapon shared the same cool down this still make life easier because one cool downs like sprite ability make charge attack have instantly usable meaning they have no movement speed penalty nor do they leave you vulnerable (something that charging a weapon currently does) so another words players could just easily play defensive while they wait for the cool down to pass or if the cool down is really long player may forget to use them general and it won't add much of a "mix" into the game.

Current charging system is ok and not that powerful, it just that some charge attack outshine others. Charging gives most weapon a powerful attack but it leave you unable to defend yourself and reduce you speed while charging the cool down system would remove and thus remove the current risk of using a charge attack.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 10:41

Draycos

"Weapon cycling."
There are multiple ways you could prevent cycling weapons to keep using charges, like making a ~2s delay after you switch out before you can use a charge, and also preventing the CD for a weapon you swapped out from clocking down until it's out again.

"It'd just promote turtling."
I didn't think of this. Oops. I guess this isn't as solid as I thought it'd be.

"Battle Sprite cooldowns, no penalties, etc."
Thing is, Sprites were supposed to enhance gameplay, but as their cooldowns are now, they just end up giving you a single ability for use every now and then. There's no such thing as cloaking, shooting quills, then attacking. Anything that isn't "Heart Attack" on Seraphynx might as well not exist, except for the shield in some cases. Drakon's skills are largely underwhelming; you can make them work, but it's much harder to. It needs some sort of change. Doesn't even have to be what I'm suggesting... just something.

"Current system is ok, it's just some charges outshine others."
Except as it stands, you have things with relatively terrible charges with high charge times, and things with the same charge times or less that have a much bigger impact.

This thread was born because of two things- one, CTR is disgusting, and two, i'm trying to brainstorm ways to stop brandish chargespam and other such things that have low risk and high reward. There's got to be some downside, some gating factor, right?

Here's a thought. What if CTR stayed but there were also cooldowns at the same time?

...forget that, I just figured out none of this matters because the problems I'm trying to fix won't get fixed, it'll just give another angle to screw them up with. I'm talking about gear balance. It's already pretty borked, so I'm starting to doubt this'll do much. There's nothing stopping the dev team from putting this in but keeping everything messy.

The more I write, the more I think all I've done with this thread is just make an excessively complex solution to an otherwise simple problem. I've just gotten tired of repeating the same "balance X" ideas over and over without any change; Brandishes could just get some damage tweaks or a movespeed tweak, or CTR could be made less powerful in general...

I don't know, man. I don't know.

I'm gonna tweak this thread to be much simpler.

EDIT: Done.

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Make CTR less powerful (or just remove it), also sprite cooldown tweaking