What to work toward next?
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 07:15
So I've finally started to amass some weapons. Now I feel I'm at the point to start expanding past what I see as my 'core' weapons (not the levels core)
My current list:
Leviathon
Divine Avenger
Combuster
Archeon
Warmaster Rocket
Arcana
Blitz
Ash of Agni
Dark Retribution
My 'want' list to get next is (in no order):
Winter Grave
Barborous Thorn Blade
Shivermist Buster
Voltaic Tempest
Id like to get the shock lockdown weps but I dont do lockdown. Am I on the right track for my next weps, or what else should I consider? I know this comes down to playstyle, etc... but im just asking in generalities. I was wanting a pierce swird, shadow gun, and more bombs, to allow myself to fully solo and start helping more in parties, especially vana (shivermist).
Any advice?
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 11:18
#2
ah yeah uvs. im rather poor
ah yeah uvs. im rather poor and dont forsee crafting/punching for them. as of now im just planning on the raw stats of the wep. I primarily run chaos though.
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 13:11
#3
Ech, Chaos users.....
I have never punched using CR to buy tickets nor do I spend money on buying Ce from OOO but I still have amassed quite an arsenal and a nice pile of rather decent UVs.
FYI you could look on the Auction house for a Nice base weapon to alchemize up, sure it will cost a bit more but it's worth it.
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 14:31
#4
my response
Yes, you should get a piercing sword. Either Final Flourish or Barbarous Thorn Blade. They're about equally good.
There are many styles of gun that you haven't tried. Alchemers and magnuses should be a top priority, as they are fun, hard to master, and powerful once you master them. Winter Grave is actually my least favorite, because the freeze stops the knockback and hence lessens the damage. Catalyzers, pulsars, tortofists, antiguas...you should try them all, although you might not like all of them.
Dark Briar Barrage is the super-useful bomb that you're conspicuously missing. Yes, you should get Voltaic Tempest too. Nitronome is extremely useful in some situations. I'm not sure whether to recommend Shivermist Buster. Freeze is a mixed blessing. It helps you control a room, but it hinders kiting, knockback, shield-bumping, etc. So I find that novices use it heavily and experts use it rarely. In this way it's not a great investment.
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 18:44
#5
@ Bopp
Winter Grave is built for continuous setup with the freeze, the downside is when your teammates are stupid and beak the ice with a regular attack. Less damage as you said, but also as you said helpful for more novice players. Sort of a middle ground for a gun.
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 20:08
#6
play style
Of course Holy-Nightmare is right, that Winter Grave's freeze helps you set up a second shot. I prefer the other magnuses because I would rather just kill the monster on the first shot. To some extent this is a matter of which play style you prefer.
If I were being snarky, I would conclude with a remark about how a dead enemy is better than a frozen enemy, so that my play style is unambiguously better than the one that Holy-Nightmare describes. But that would ignore the fact that setting up good magnus charge shots takes time and care. It's conceivable that freezing and then doing a second shot is faster than setting up a perfect first shot. But I doubt it, and I'm certain that it's less fun. So I choose the other magnuses.
Mi, 07/01/2015 - 22:36
#7
Thanks for the advice. So
Thanks for the advice. So i'll probably be getting the Barborous Thorn Blade or Voltaic Tempest first. I do have the 2* shadow alchemer with 3 and 4* recipes already so..that might be an option for a shadow gun if i learn the ricochets.
I would like a gun I could do massive damage, that's why I thought the winter grave sounded better with the freeze option if it delivered a punch. I guess i didn't read the fine print it does less than the other magnus? I'll have to do a little more research.
If I remember correctly, the bombing guide says the DBB does decent damage, with no knockback. Essentially making it a useful bomb in parties to deliver massive damage to groups of enemies without disrupting your allies attacks or potentially throwing an attacking enemy into them. Is that correct?
On a side note, I just did my first attempt/completion of the 'Cradle to Core' without reviving achievement. Kinda fun, albeit long. Was nice to see 17k crowns though (didn't do the Vana arcade...). Hit the screenshot a second to late so...no photo :(
Thanks again.
Do, 07/02/2015 - 06:12
#8
....
Prior to the big GU I had a Callahan that I would use for it's unique effect with the regular shot and while Magnus use is up greatly I have yet to see others use this tactic.
I would use the Callahan to combat devilites, this sounds silly since everyone knows devilites dodge bullets. Well, they can TRY to dodge Callahan bullets, in the end they aren't fast enough and you can easily hit and flinch them with a single bullets. OK, gunning devilites is neat but a single hit hardly seems worth it and you'd be right, but it's not the damage I'm after with this tactic.... it's the setup, a flinched devilite has a short time which it can't move, this short time is enough to launch a regular volley from your Blitz or Plague needle dealing great raw damage. Simply put I was switch shooting with Plague needle and Callahan.
What does this mean for you and for the Winter grave?
Well the GU brought more than just a Shadow type magnus it also brought a shadow type Autogun, and this magnus autogun switchshooting tactic works just as well on those dodgy gremlins.
Do, 07/02/2015 - 07:39
#9
to clarify
I would like a gun I could do massive damage, that's why I thought the winter grave sounded better with the freeze option if it delivered a punch. I guess i didn't read the fine print it does less than the other magnus? I'll have to do a little more research.
I think that it delivers the same damage per hit as the other magnuses. But you often don't land as many hits on the charge, because freeze (or shock) can stop the enemy from being knocked back along the path of the charge. It's the old Glacius vs. Voltedge vs. Combuster problem --- same damage, but nowhere near the same damage.
Your main options for massively damaging guns are alchemers, magnuses, and autoguns. Get lots of CTR and damage bonus. Alchemers are also great on regular attacks.
If I remember correctly, the bombing guide says the DBB does decent damage, with no knockback. Essentially making it a useful bomb in parties to deliver massive damage to groups of enemies without disrupting your allies attacks or potentially throwing an attacking enemy into them. Is that correct?
Yes. I would add that it's not just about parties. When solo, blast bombs can be slow to use, because you keep knocking the monsters away from where you want to blast. DBB doesn't have that problem. You just keep laying it down, interrupting the monsters, until they die. It's the fastest way to kill a bunch of beasts, and it's often the safest way to beat a bunch of fiends.
Congratulations on Cradle to Core. I have a fond memory of the first time I did that.
Do, 07/02/2015 - 09:50
#10
Yes, you should get a piecing
Yes, you should get a piecing sword. As Holy mentioned, it is easier to get UV's at the Flourish line. Both BTB and FF are equally good sword's. The charge is something we can argue about. Sometimes its more, or sometimes it's less. I would recommend getting the BTB, as I find the charge more useful and efficient.
Hope you get better comments soon.
So, 07/05/2015 - 20:03
#11
Want a Gun with Powerful Damage?
People were already talking about the Winter Grave line, and that is great and all, but if you want sole damage, then the Iron Slug would not be a bad choice, since it is a Magnus and it deals Normal Damage. Sure, no increased damage to weak enemies, but its versatility is unrivaled by the Callahan or Winter Grave.
You could also instead use a Callahan in place of a Flourish. I know you use Chaos, so you should already have Gun Damage. Fiends are easily stopped (i.e Gorgos and Devilites) with a sufficiently powerful shot, and it applies to Wolvers as well (already mentioned by Holy-Nightmare). You could step it up a notch and try Single-Switching or (what a nub like I do) using two Callahans to stun-lock (if you are confident with your Gunslinging skills). Bopp mentioned that you will need practice with a Magnus if you are new to it, and I could not agree any more.
Oh, and Catalyzers are powerful charging point-blank. Equivalent of a Magnus charge pre-Gunner Update.
Mo, 07/06/2015 - 06:39
#12
@ Rhons
Working catalyzers well is all about prediction.
http://i.imgur.com/pAroRcZ.jpg
Prediction skills are just about knowing the enemy well and to do that you have to play a long time. Still these guns aren't rewarding even if your skills of prediction are immaculate. In fact even then they are mediocre guns when it comes to power (DPS to be more precise); fun but mediocre.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 08:57
#13
Thanks all for the
Thanks all for the feedback.
I am working toward the BTB, I have the 4* Dark Thorn at heat level 9 right now so I'll get that to the BTB tonight.
I've never bought a trinket or weapon slot before. Mainly because I had a limited selection of weapons for quite some time, so it was almost pointless to do so. However now that i've amassed different weapons I feel it is justified for me to start (even if its just 1 weapon slot). So for crowd control in vana (need the radiants), does the voltaic do just as good a job as the shivermist? In terms of overall use, as Bopp said I'd probably get the Voltaic, but for the need of radiants I'm wondering if it does as good in Vana.
If so, I'd start running Combuster/Blitz/Voltaic for vana runs.
I probably won't be using a catalyzer anytime soon, but it'll be on a backlog to get to try it out later.
I'll most likely be getting my BTB tonight, then Voltaic Tempest, then DBB. Finally after that I can start playing around with the different guns to see what I like.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 09:35
#14
Shivermist vs. Voltaic in FSC
So for crowd control in vana (need the radiants), does the voltaic do just as good a job as the shivermist?
By "vana" you could mean either all of Firestorm Citadel or just the boss fight on depth 28. And on depths 24-27 there are two main enemy types: zombies and trojans. So here is advice, which you can pick apart depending on your main concerns.
* For zombies on depths 24-27, there is not much use for crowd control, because they're so slow. Purely for damage, Voltaic would be much better than Shivermist. But Combuster and Blitz Needle are more than sufficient, so this is not a big win for Voltaic.
* For trojans on depths 24-27, most people would probably prefer Shivermist. Freeze lets you set up a definite kill shot with Blitz Needle, whereas shock spasms are less predictable. If trojans are difficult for you, then Shivermist wins here.
* For depth 28, most people seem to prefer Shivermist over Voltaic, again because freeze is so predictable. (But expert players use neither, instead focusing on damage.)
So, yes, I would say that Shivermist beats Voltaic for crowd control in Firestorm Citadel. Since that is a high priority for you, go for it.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 09:35
#15
@ Novat
The Shivermist buster is for total control but it severely hinders knockback and shield bumping not to mention it's damage output is very low.
The Ash of Agni is a pure damage haze bomb, it offers no control over enemies but it provides a consistent damage output across all enemy types (though some may stay lit for shorter times)
The Voltaic tempest is the middle ground between the two. It's status somewhat hinders knockback and shield bumping but doesn't prevent it. It's damage tends to scale up with a few factors such as number of enemies and the proximity the enemies are to each other (A shocked enemy takes damage periodically but when one enemy takes damage the monsters around it also take damage). Shock status deals pure Elemental damage so it's damage drops when used against Elemental resistant enemies. As a side note the raw damage is lower than the Ash of Agni (if you compare the damage the status deals vs single targets)
The Voltaic Tempest is a great bomb for any level of bomber, the Shivermist is for advanced bombers who know enemy spawn locations and beginners who need control, Ash of Agni is for more advanced bombers who are adept at dodging and leading enemies.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 10:58
#16
I'm fine with the ash. My
I'm fine with the ash. My first two weapons were the levi and the ash. I won't go into an arena or danger room without the ash (as long as its not fired themed). Kiting ftw.
I've been getting better at FSC. I can make it to the last part of 27 before I die. That last room is just a tad bit tough and I do make mistakes that cost me in the other mob rooms sometimes. And vana I'm not comfortable with but I'm getting use to his actions.
Pretty sure I said this above, but I'll say it again in case I didn't. I usually play solo, although I want to start playing more in parties. That's a big reason why I'm expanding my arsenal so fast without giving lots of things a try. I want to be able to be useful in parties in all situations. Obviously FSC is a huge part of the endgame for a lot of people, so I'm just crossing my t's and dotting my i's making sure the weps I get are useful.
Trojans are easy (except that last room with all the slags....) so I'm not worried about them.
I'll probably just get the Voltaic first to have a wider range of use.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 11:24
#17
FSC parties
Expert FSC parties don't care whether you have Shivermist Buster. In fact, they would be happier if you just Blitzed without Shivering.
On the other hand, novice FSC parties value both Blitz Needle and Shivermist Buster, so by getting Shivermist you make yourself more versatile and desirable as a teammate.
If you're soloing the Vanaduke fight, then Shivermist helps a little but not a lot. By the time you've charged your Blitz Needle and maneuvered into position, your freeze might have already thawed. Or, if you have lots of CTR and are good at maneuvering, then you probably don't need freeze in the first place.
Shivermist can help control the final fight in depth 27. For example, before the two-trojan wave starts, get yourself down to one highly injured zombie, and freeze it far away from the top of the room. Then go to the top and start freezing. When the zombie thaws, it takes damage and dies; the next wave starts with the two trojans already frozen.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 11:26
#18
@ Novot
For FSC I would recommend getting the Divine avenger (preferably with a CTR UV). This isn't the most powerful weapon but it's damage is very respectable. You will be using it mostly for the charge attack which can hold off hordes of enemies rather easily, the biggest problem with FSC is not getting trapped by the slags.
Still, I have been able to kite and dance my way through that last room in FSC with just a Valiance and the third Seraphynx skill.
One thing to keep in mind about the VT is that it has a great amount of use outside of FSC, Zombies have a decent amount of HP and will take a long amount of time to wear down with just the shock damage. The VT is best used to keep masses of enemies at a manageable speed till you thin out their numbers enough, after that you can switch to a more single damage weapon.
Mi, 07/08/2015 - 11:59
#19
already has it
The original post says that s/he already has Divine Avenger, Combuster, and Warmaster Rocket Hammer. So s/he can try out all of them and use what s/he likes.
Post #13 suggests that s/he's already convinced of Voltaic's utility throughout the game. The current line of questioning is specifically about which bomb is best for crowd control in Firestorm Citadel.
The Thorn blade is not really better or worse than the flourish line and the charge is just as viable but for a different use entirely. One positive factor about the flourish is that it is relatively easier to get UVs on it due to how cheap it is to craft it in comparison to crafting thorn blades.