Weapon damage types + Statuses
Do, 07/09/2015 - 14:21
Decided to make a list of how many of each item type does what damage type and status. Sword = S. Gun = G. Bomb = B.
Tell me if I should do shields and armors.
Reskins aren't listed, but event items are.
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Damage types
Normal = N. Pierce = P. Elemental = E. Shadow = S. Combos mean split damage types.
0*
S/N - 5
S/P - 0
S/E - 0
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 0
S/NS - 0
G/N - 3
G/P - 0
G/E - 0
G/S - 0
B/N - 1
B/P - 0
B/E - 0
B/S - 0
1*
S/N - 7
S/P - 0
S/E - 1
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 2
S/NS - 0
G/N - 6
G/P - 0
G/E - 0
G/S - 0
B/N - 3
B/P - 0
B/E - 0
B/S - 0
2*
S/N - 6
S/P - 2
S/E - 0
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 2
S/NS - 0
G/N - 4
G/P - 0
G/E - 4
G/S - 1
B/N - 2
B/P - 2
B/E - 6
B/S - 2
3*
S/N - 7
S/P - 4
S/E - 1
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 3
S/NS - 1
G/N - 5
G/P - 6
G/E - 8
G/S - 7
B/N - 3
B/P - 3
B/E - 7
B/S - 4
4*
S/N - 7
S/P - 4
S/E - 0
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 4
S/NS - 2
G/N - 5
G/P - 6
G/E - 9
G/S - 8
B/N - 4
B/P - 3
B/E - 7
B/S - 3
5*
S/N - 7
S/P - 4
S/E - 1
S/S - 0
S/NP - 0
S/NE - 5
S/NS - 3
G/N - 6
G/P - 6
G/E - 10
G/S - 9
B/N - 4
B/P - 3
B/E - 7
B/S - 5
Statuses
WILL BE DONE LATER
(stuff I want to remove but decided to keep:) Gunners and bombers can only deal pure damage. No splits. Swordsmen can't deal pure shadow damage - Only split. The only swordsmen who have the option to deal pure elemental damage are the ones who completed Operation Crimson Hammer. Swordsmen also can't deal split normal/pierce - Only pure pierce.
Do, 07/09/2015 - 18:11
#2
"dealing pure damage is usually not beneficial"
Is this referring to this:
"Swordsmen can't deal pure shadow damage - Only split. The only swordsmen who have the option to deal pure elemental damage are the ones who completed Operation Crimson Hammer."
Well, yes, but then there's also this:
"Gunners and bombers can only deal pure damage. No splits."
And this:
"Swordsmen also can't deal split normal/pierce - Only pure pierce."
So maybe it would be better if some new split bombs/guns are added? Or is that where the "usually" comes in - Some/most bombs and guns are good with pure?
Do, 07/09/2015 - 19:11
#3
Well the formula is like so-
[Damage] * [Damage multiplier from armor etc.] - [Monster Defense] = Damage done
Pure damage has to resist only the weak resistance, but split damage gets to resist both normal defense and specialized defenses separately, and to compensate have larger amounts of damage behind them. This makes sense, because it means that swords ramp up faster damage wise in spite of typically having less hits compared to say, sneaking in gun shots for free or hitting 12 enemies with nitronome.
In fact, I'm of the opinion that we should keep this balance up but crank it up to 11 for normal damage swords- split normal/normal gets even better damage ramp up.
Fr, 07/10/2015 - 06:25
#4
yes
Yes, I made my post in response to all of those points, because I wasn't sure what conclusions you were drawing from your study. Now that you obviously get it, I'll say two more things:
Some players want to make all of the equipment symmetric --- for example, sworder armor in all damage types with all kinds of sword bonuses. And the new gunner armors are kind of like this. But good design often benefits from a mixture of symmetry and asymmetry. Symmetry is beautiful, but asymmetry keeps it interesting. So I'm not convinced that we need to fill out all of the weapon damage combinations.
Secondly, I think that the entire damage calculations should be rebalanced, to fix issues such as 4-star weapons' doing more damage than their 5-star versions, and defensive armor's being worthless compared to offensive armor. Maybe after this change we could fine-tune the mixture of weapon damage types. Cheers.
So, 07/19/2015 - 12:33
#5
Bump.
Separated by star. Will add statuses soon. I didn't really bump this for discussion, but because I thought some players would like to see this info.
Yes, one can make lists like this. In case you don't know, dealing pure damage is usually not beneficial, because of how damage is calculated.
Bonus damage (from elemental against undead, for example) is not a percentage, but rather a flat bonus, such as 65.5 points at depth 24. So Combuster (normal + elemental) gets just as much damage bonus against zombies as Warmaster Rocket Hammer (pure elemental) does.
In contrast, damage penalties are more like a percentage, and that percentage is very high --- about 80%-85%. Therefore Combuster does tons more damage against gremlins than Warmaster Rocket Hammer does.
In this way, a mixture of normal and elemental damage can be seen as better than pure elemental damage. By the way, all of this is not really about damage bonuses or penalties, but rather defense. Lost souls have no defense against elemental, undead have weak defense, slimes have moderate defense, and gremlins have very strong defense. See the wiki page Defense to learn more.