Chris' Lockdown Feedback

I would consider myself one of the best Lockdown players in the game, as there were very few games where I was not top damage, captures and defends all in the same game. Any game where I was top damage but not top captures, I was only 1 or 2 captures from being top, having 4x everybodies damage just makes it that much better.
How I generally play lockdown is: Rush to the nearest enemy controlled point while letting my team get the points near the spawn. If I can get there before the enemy finishes capturing it (I use recond on 3 point maps and striker on larger ones) I will usually be able to contest it until my team can come help, or kill them all and capture it myself.
During the game, I spend most of my time killing players who are trying to capture points or who are on their way to capture points. Damage is the most important thing in lockdown ( as long as you are defending or attacking points) and I have found that the only times I don't win are when I have an off game and get under 6k damage. Please don't try to say that damage is not as important as captures and defends, because if you are doing damage for any reason other than to capture and defend, you are doing it wrong and will lose.
One of my most successful strategies is when I attack a point before my team gets there, and once another member of my team arrives to capture the point I have cleared, I move on the the next enemy point. I allow my less skilled teammates to stand in the point and capture it because I'm much more useful fighting the enemy team. I advise all players who are very good at striker/recon to use this strategy because I'm positive it will make you win more games.
I'm going to talk about a few things I think are a bit overpowered and a few things that I think are a bit underpowered and how these things interact as well as what can be done to fix/change them.
Regarding Bombs: I do not think most bombs are imbalanced at the moment, although I do find teams who only spam bombs on the points all game cowardly and very boring to play against. One bomb that I think needs to be reworked/nerfed a bit is the Voltaic Tempest. It's status application is a little bit imbalanced. The shivermist only applies a freeze by chance when you walk through it, and many times even with no freeze resist I can step on a shivermist for a second and not be frozen. The Voltaic Tempest however, applies shock almost instantly every single time, even with a double UV for high or more shock resist (which was more than my freeze when I was walking through shivermists). This should be reworked so that even players with no shock resist have a CHANCE, however small, of walking through it without any status debuff being applied.
Regarding Swords: I do not think any swords are "overpowered". Many complain about the Gran Faust just because they have no shadow defense. Trust me, those Gran Fausters wouldn't be doing much versus shadow defense, especially with that slow of a sword. You could tear them apart with a BTB or flourish. The main reason people QQ about the Gran Faust is because they don't want to sacrifice their increased damage or attack speed for defense. You will pay the price when I two shot you and laugh at you when you cry about it because you are in full vog/skolver. Faust is less OP than the divine avenger, but much less people have shadow resist than elemental resist. Also please keep in mind that faust does half normal half shadow, so using gear with shadow but no normal is worse than using gear with normal and no shadow. Just something to keep in mind.
I think the final flourish is a bit imbalanced because of it's attack animation, the second swing goes a little bit too far (hitbox wise) to be balanced in pvp. It allows people using the FF to destroy anybody from a very safe range. I think it should be reworked to have a similar animation and hitbox as the BTB or it should be given normal/pierce split damage. Pure non normal type weapons shouldn't be given amazing range and hitbox as well.
Regarding Guns: I think all guns are completely fine at the moment, I do think how some of the powerups work with guns should be reworked, but I can touch on that a little bit later. One thing that could be changed is maybe adding a little extra range to the auto guns attacks or charges, as they are a little too close ranged to be viable at all in pvp compared to antigua/pulsar lines.
Regarding Striker Class: I think the striker class was a bit overpowered in combat before the change to their sprint time, but now I think they are bit underpowered compared to recon and especially guardian. Striker is BY FAR the most pure skill and hand-eye requiring class to play. Everybody who plays a great striker is truely skilled at spiral knights, and can probably easily solo vanaduke without taking much damage, as they rely on the same mechanics of dodging attacks and dpsing while doing it. When I get into my grove on striker, I find that I am able to pull off such impressive moves and quite often get a WOW or a that was insane kind of response. One thing I think that could be done to give strikers a better fighting chance is to rework how the sprint works. I think strikers should get 5 1 second sprints, but only be able to spring for 3 seconds straight. Sprinting around the map was kind of imbalanced before the 5-3 second change, but now I find myself not being able to sprint behind people/backwards when I need to in fights. Striker has no defense buffs like guardian and recon, so it should be given the best offense. I think strikers should have increased gun speed as well, since they are the only class to have only one bonus.
Regarding Recon Class: I give props to anybody who uses this class well, as it truely takes something more than skill. This class by far requires the most strategy to play well. One problem with recon at the moment is that the only really viable way to play them, is by using swords, and they give a sword speed decrease. I think recon should have sword speed increased but also have sword damage decreased to prevent suprise two shotting. It would be fair to give recon minus sword damage medium, but also let them gain that damage bonus back by having 4x damage bonus medium on their gear and still getting maximum. This would make recons chose to have lower damage or VERY LOW defense. I think recon sniping with guns was a bit imbalanced, especially with the callahan, so I think removing the attack speed for guns would be fair as well. Recon class could also have a gun damage increase if this becomes a problem. One main problem was max attack speed recon getting multiple callahan hits off quickly causing you to be stunned forever and unable to stop them because of shoot-stealth-shoot-stealth-shoot-stealth etc. I think situations where you either hit them before they shoot you and kill them or where they hit you once and have you stunlocked are too chance based to be included in the game. There should be reward for landing a shot, but it shouldn't be a free kill, and their should be a penalty for missing a shot, but it shouldn't be getting destroyed because you are a slow recon who has just revealed himself. Increase gun damage to reward landing shots, but decrease speed to avoid stun combos with callahan just because they were able to land one shot while they were stealthed.
Regarding Guardian Class: This class is probably the most frustrating as the people who use it literally almost always do nothing but stand still shielded on a point and wait for you to attack and then poke you with a sword until you die. This is by far the best class and also by far the easiest, which makes no sense. Guardian class need to be taken down a notch. They need to have greatly decreased sword and gun speed. AT LEAST medium if not high or very high. It's almost impossible for a striker or recon to 1v1 a guardian when both players are at the same skill level. I think the best way to address Guardians is make is not so good for them to be using swords and guns and better to be using bombs. For example give them some bomb ctr if they charge say within 2 seconds of releasing their shield. This would make it so Guardians are no longer standing still for 2 minutes with their shield waiting for you to attack, and then destroying you with a single sword swing and then throwing their shield back up again. Guardians who use bombs have to sacrifice their shield being up to charge their bombs which gives strikers and recons a fighting chance to land a hit while they are charging. The turtling game is never fun and the easiest classes should never be the most powerful. I also think recons debuff should greatly decrease the damage a Guardians shield can take before breaking. If you don't fix the Guardians offence, at least make their shield have a timer to decrease their stupid ability to stand still on a point for unlimited amounts of time while shielded.
I would rank the classes is order of skill requirement: Striker>Recon>Guardian
I would rank the classes in order of strategy requirement: Recon>Striker>Guardian
I would rank the classes in order of usefulness on a team and importance on a team: Guardian>Recon>Striker
Seems silly that the easiest class is the most useful and that the hardest class is the least useful. :P
I hope this was a great read for all, and I hope to see you soon in PvP!
Please post your feedback below!
~Chris

Oh and guardian shields have Shield stun (means you can't instantly attack after you receive damage to your shield). Use it against them, make them choke! Don't make you game play depend on just offensive, you gotta play spacing them, have some patience bro.

I have plenty of paitence, have spent too much time messing around with turtling guardians, every time I have played the class myself I have found it ridiculously easy and boring.

Cause people are still new to the game. It's quite different from PvE, as you prolly know. It's not easy if the person you're playin against get used to your fighting style, cause at the end it's all about how well you adapt to each enemy's style.
I say it's too soon to call the guardian shied too easy or broken, I've seen pretty good players in all 3 classes, all of them with pros and cons.
If it really is that broken I wouldn't mind it having a time limit, but it still have to be longer than racon and striker, cause that's the job of a guardian, protect and keep your team safe from the unexpected and quick attacks from racons and strikers.
A guardian with a short timed shield is just a temporary relatively protected chatacter, who can't run or hide. This would make it really easy for strikers and racons to camp, just imagine :P
the only thing i find OP about guardian is that it heals you. remove that and imo it would be fine
~Spag

I agree with Chris on Striker and Recon classes, but might I suggest that the reason you find Guardian so annoying is because you always go off on your own? If they're just sitting on the CP by themselves, it's really not hard for two people to take them down very quickly.
As for the regen, I think it's fine. It's not very fast and being the slowest-moving class it's harder for them to get back to base to heal themselves. Strikers can do it every time unless someone is camping the base, and recons can do it undetected very reliably as well.

"I would consider myself one of the best Lockdown players in the game"
Chris such ego won't take you anywhere, there is always a bigger fish than you out there. Maybe that's the reason people start mocking and complaining about you in their forum posts.
Back to topic
Regarding to your feedback.
1. I agree with the sword power are fine, pointing again to the armor defense you use.
2. Pure gunning it ma be a mistake because the damage they deal, it takes a lot of time to kill somebody, they are used only in a centrain situations like stopping bombers to charge or finishing somebody that's trying to run away. Still fine but people who will like to go full guns will be very disappointed.
3. Low speed decrease on racons are not a really big issue, easily covered with a UV and fairly unnoticeable. in most swords. Yet a guardian and a Racon teaming are great. They are perfect if you have a nice ping to the server, people will having a hard time spoting you and hitting you.

Several flaws in the assessment of Guardian here.
1) The shield (seemingly) absorbs less damage than it used to, maybe 20-30%
2) Guardians cannot one shot you. And you can avoid being hit by them entirely.
3) There is a pause between when we hit shield and when the actual shield take effect. This may be because of lag, but I noticed I'll usually take a hit between the two instances.
4) You hate guardians because you don't know how to fight them. The easiest way to fight a Guardian is to gangbang them. Even getting a 2v1 matchup helps against them. 3v1, they're yours. They can't get away, because they move freaking slow. If you insist on going solo and just trying to kill people, ignoring the whole teamwork part of the game, recon has some very good techniques for taking them down. It is entirely possible for a striker to take down Guardians solo, and fairly quickly. You just haven't figured out how. In fact, I've seen you demonstrate the ways NOT to do it several times and get killed for it.
5) You also seem not to realize the point of them having a shield is for them to use it.
Striker is one of the easier classes to play, btw. All I see you or twili do is do 1 hit or so, take some damage, run back to your base like pansies to heal up. No way a guardian can do that, recon's chances are probably 50-50.
I will agree with your views on recon though.

Dude I find your post to be beyond idiotic, no class should require you to 2v1 them to beat them, that's possibly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
And saying striker is an easy class to play, is also beyond idiotic, you clearly have not played much Lockdown. Lol.

I've played at least 10 hours of Lockdown, Guardian was ridiculously overpowered at first, and after the nerf it has gone from overpowered to just being annoying.
You usually need 2 people to take down a guardian, and he will almost always kill one of you, unless he is horrible.
No class should be like this, end of story.

I never said I was the best lockdown player, I said I am one of the best, which I am.
Only maybe 4 or 5 times in 10 hours of play did somebody out damage me, out capture me and our defend me in a single game.
If I'm not top damage it's because I'm forced to run around capturing all game, in which case I will have top captures and second top damage.
Nothing you can really say to argue these facts, lol.
One of the people on my friend's list, Sonicmega, was the best player on Battle Network before the leaderboard wipe. He was number 1. That's indisputable. If this guy has played 10 or more hours of Lockdown, and he thinks he's one of the best, then that's fine. There's no need to get all butthurt about it because somebody plays more often or is better than you.
However, most of you are commenting on that instead of the important part of this thread, which are the balancing issues. If this guy has 10+ hours of experience in the game, we should use that information to improve the game, instead of harping on egotism.
@ dude217: I don't do that. :(
I finish my kill usually, or if I am losing the fight I do retreat. If I am still killing someone and more of my team come by, and I'm weak, I will leave it to them. Simple as that. But that is the thing when playing with the Striker class, to stay alive you have to be quick, and it >can< involve running away for your safety. Its more for quick kills.

I played just about every hour of lockdown testing except monday and tuesday morning. So 3 hours friday, 6 saturday, 6 sunday, 4 mon, 4 tues= roughly 23 hours playtime. In other words, double yours. And I have no idea where you're pulling your stats, because in the games you played people from the guild top ten, you NEVER had the most captures and very rarely had any defends. Damage, you still pulled out half the time, I'll give you. But then you also lost the game most of the time.
And btw, I NEVER said you have to take them 2v1. I said it's easiest to. Learn how to read. You can totally do it solo. I did against Meida and Poul several times, not even counting the times I broke their shield and then lost the subsequent all-out sword battle. Breaking a Guardian's shield is actually really easy when you know how to do it right. Which you apparently don't.
And ALL classes are easier to take 2v1. And you know the hardest even then? And imo the hardest to take 1v1? A good recon player, not guardian.
You just need to up your strategy. I mean, I played against you one game and killed you 3 times. All three you had a guardian as backup, I had no one. But you don't know how to use them, or how to beat them.
You really seem to be missing the point of lockdown. This is not team death match. You would be in the top 3 there. The point is to control points, and to play classes as best fits their design, but your gameplay does not support that, despite how you think it does. So stop complaining about something you're not good at, and actually become good at the game at hand. Wait till they unleash some killzone all about damage to do what you do now.
edit- and was just trying to make a point, twili ;) many strikers do run off and heal if they're losing, which other classes can't really do. My personal opinion is that that's kinda lame, but w/e.
In testing I used mad bomber suit and helm and grew owlite shield which had no shadow protection and that's why I had such a hard time with the GF... and I was pure bomber. Because I enjoy being guardian... and bombs while being guardian just made more sense to me.
The point of guardian is to PROTECT your team mates and to heal them. I can see where you, chris, would be frustrated with it but also don't forget the point of the role is to be EXACTLY that. Frustrating to the other team. I find it hard because recon and striker have some sort of speed increase while guardians move real slow. When you're a guardian you have to make the choice to hold up your shield and move slow and risk getting caught in the battle.
I learned with strikers if I just moved in zig zags, same thing with gunners, it was much harder for them to cause damage and to kill me. I constantly kept moving no matter what I was doing. Charging my bomb, with shield up, moving from base to base... i walked in zig zags to avoid taking on damage. It worked and I would very rarely die from that alone. All I can do with recon people around is when that marker comes up...plant a bomb to slow them down (hopefully) and throw the shield up. Most of the time I could do that.
So we'll see. in game I have shadow and curse protection on various things. I'll update my post in my thread after I log on and test it out again.
Overall chris has a good review and I agree with many many things he has to say here.

Thanks for a logical post Biomechanika, it was a nice change from the angst filled ones

I said I am one of the best, which I am.
-Chris
Bla bla bla i have top dmg bla bla bla i hve tons of caps and dfends nd stuff nd this mkes me epic lockdown plyer i am one of d best.
Chris, your ego makes me laugh. Coming out of nowhere and saying you're one of the best gets you, well, nowhere.

As Nick mentioned in another thread:
"This thread is a misuse of the testing forum. Please do not post unless it's in regard to game balance, bugs, etc. Thank you."
We ask that players posting in this forum respect these rules, as keeping this forum as clean and as focused as possible helps us developers parse it for useful information regarding testing content. Thank you.

PWNED!
PWNED!
It is kind of egotistic to say that, Chrisseh.

Chris, i LOLOL every time i read ur threads. "I consider myself to be one of the best lockdown players in the game" "i said i was am one of the best, which i am"
LOL you think you are better than everyone else.

@Theskyblade:This thread hasn't been posted on for a couple of weeks. Don't bring back the dead zombies... dead threads are without grim totems :P

I said I am one of the best and most experienced players in the game because it gives my suggestions a reason to be taken seriously. Any casual player can post their opinion of what needs to be done about aspects of the game and it really doesn't matter because most players are, in a way, misinformed.
Being one of the most skilled players, I'm easily able to tell what is overpowered and underpowered when used properly. Of course a lot of people think certain thinks are OMG OP! but most of that is because they are playing against them wrong or because they are just not good enough to master their role.
Being one of the most experienced players gives me knowledge of super brawl, what was "op" in that, as well as how every peice of armor in the game takes it's place in lockdown or any other aspect of the game. This also allows me to use most items to their full potential, and again to determine what items make some classes too strong compared to others.
There is no need to flame when somebody uses a statement about their experience and skill to back up their suggestions, especially when they are being 100% honest.
Please let this thread die, lockdown testing is over -_-

"Being one of the most skilled players"
yeeeees Chris you are *rolleyes*
If you just stopped praising yourself you wouldn't have to deal with so much contestant. Learn to be humble for a single once, stop thinking you're above everybody.
Though I'm pretty sure you won't listen to that, you've put yourself already so far in your own mess, there's no possible turning back for ya (polite word).

I don't understand why everyone turns Chris' threads into a %!@storm just because he casually states his qualifications throughout his assessments. Seems like a natural thing to mention when you're giving feedback on a game. Can't you address his points instead of attacking his character and derailing his threads, more than once now prompting a warning from the admins?

Lavatein your gravedigging posts here are being e-mailed to a GM.
Stop flaming my threads.
Grow up.
edit: STOP BUMPING THIS POST
An admin has already warned you from doing so.

Guardian is op Becouse is Guarding the points like a guard... Oh wait...

I remember killing you in many Lockdown games several times in a row. You're not one of the best at all. If this was just a casual feedback on Lockdown, then why begin with with a self-centered statement that is entirely false?

Post screenshots of you killing me in lockdown.
I can make false claims just like you can, but I have screenshots to back up my claims in this thread, whereas you do not.
http://i.imgur.com/urxN2.png
http://i.imgur.com/QoW9B.png
http://i.imgur.com/7ctjn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/G8Qcm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VhoIK.png
http://i.imgur.com/qtRr7.png
http://i.imgur.com/M03DS.png
http://i.imgur.com/WIANj.png
http://i.imgur.com/wtpdV.png
http://i.imgur.com/fBbHE.png
http://i.imgur.com/Gw4Qg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fGLKa.png

...did you REALLY just post all those screenshots of you dominating horribly imbalanced teams? Not one of those screenshots had you pulling the team, and looking at the damage scores if you had not been there they still would've won. In fact, the majority of those shots were your team beating the other teams' face in by several hundred points, some of them even have someone leaving on the other team. Being the MVP on a steamrolling team is not impressive in the slightest. That and I've seen many people get MUCH higher scores than you, and even at that, players that are probably a bigger help to the team than you simply because instead of running off they stuck with the team to back up and support them with bombs and healing rather than damage.
See? Nobody takes you seriously when every thread you make with criticism is you blowing your own horn.
And on that note, Guardian is a completely balanced class. Why? I play guardian all the time as I didn't level many swords, I went full bomber instead. this makes for a GREAT gaurdian loadout, as people know to stay away from hazed areas but still don't know how to properly react to normal bombs. How do you stop me? SHOOT ME. It's not hard, I've been completely shutdown by recons who know that if I'm denying area, all the have to do is pester me with guns and I won't be able to charge anything, even with full charge time reduction. Eventually it boils down to how long my shield can last, which isn't very long when being shot at constantly. I've been killed many times from a single person who's able to read what I'm doing and counter it with guns. or better yet, be a team player and stick with other people who can help take down a guardian.
And really? making fun of people in full Vog for saying the GF is OP and then saying they need to put their defense elsewhere when you wear vog in those screens yourself? Please stop talking.

Hey everyone, remember that the Testing Feedback forum is for posts relating to current testing content. While the original post was valid during our earlier Lockdown tests, please keep these further posts out of the Testing Feedback forum. Thank you.
"I would consider myself one of the best Lockdown players in the game"
That's a funny one.
Oh and about your whining about guardian class, you can camp them with your gun, wait for them to come out of shield and approach. You just have to think, to predict. You will obviously get hit if you stay in front of a guardian doing nothing. I broke so many guardian shields in seconds, then what? they start running and if you lose your chance to finish them then it's your fault.The point of being a guardian is to hold the base and help your team, it is obviously a passive/aggressive character since all it has is a shield. If the shield had a time limit it would be the least useful class, AND the hardest to make effective. Plus, a guardian can't be shielding your bombs/swings/shots all day, at some point you will break the shield, and if you have some intelligence you will be able to pick a ranged weapon to pressure him, or even break his shield and kill him. You gotta attack attack and attack as quick and smart as possible, when the guardian notices his shield is about to break they will change the tactic or die, come on seriously, did you even try to break their shield? I can understand you struggling against my guardian, but that's just cause I know what you're gonna do, I owned you when you were a guardian, and also a striker, and you called me nooby guardian.. haha, I think you're just salty cause you can't figure it out.
You gotta be QUICK AND SMART, and that goes against any class. I noticed a good player can make any class really good.
I'm tempted to be a racon next time just to own your "rushing tactics" :P I can see it already, a racon chillin in one of the bridges, and you running right into them.
My suggestion: Think a little, don't just rush and spam attacks like a crazy monkey, and then, if it's possible for you, MAYBE, you will understand the game is quite balanced class wise.
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Quick.