Spiral Knights - Heat lost when going solo or being removed from a party

Heat lost when going solo or being removed from a party

16 replies [Last post]

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 15:25

Master-Of

At the moment, players going solo or being removed from a party loose their heat.
This is totally wrong. There is no valid logical reason for this; so it must be coding issues, to be overcome.

Lost heat is especially annoying, if a party leader is AFK for a long time, since there is no way for others to vote him away and they can't use an elevator to get their heat. In this situation heat is basically lost for everyone.

Also, when a party leader is an evil person and removes players for no proper reason, he also removes their heat and is doing them wrong twice that way.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 17:02

Providence

No, this is intentional. If

No, this is intentional.
If you would like to see this changed, make a thread in Suggestions, but this is not a bug.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 15:09

Master-Of

Why do you think so?

I am still convinced, this is a bug.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 17:39

Repartee

@desouler

A design purposefully implemented so people can't attempt to recollect heat endlessly on a level is not a bug. It is intentional no matter how "convinced" you may be.

Please, if you have a suggestion. Place it in suggestions. Not the incorrect forum.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 19:29

Nicoya-Kitty

If people are getting extra

If people are getting extra heat when joining a party rather than just what's collected since they joined, then arguably that is the bug that needs fixing.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:06

Master-Of

Nicoya-Kitty is right. People

Nicoya-Kitty is right.
People should not get the heat the party collected before they joined. This would definitely be the main part of the bug, if they get it at the moment.
Instead they should just keep the heat collected since they joined, when they go solo or are removed from the party. That way it can't be abused and is fair for everyone.
There is no valid logical reason for this being different.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:19

Providence

The problem is that heat is

The problem is that heat is tied to the session you're in--if you leave the session, even to be transferred to an identical session (going solo or being kicked)--the game does not draw a distinction between that and say, being transported to Haven. If items on the ground and heat collected stayed constant between instances of a floor, then it would be very easy to exploit that in he way Repartee described. To be safe, the game is setup such that you can only get heat from an instance by completing the whole floor in that instance.

I strongly suggest that you submit a Support ticket to get confirmation on this, but that is my understanding of the heat mechanic.
This wiki page is where I am getting my information from: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Party

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:35

Repartee

@nicoya-kitty/desouler

Since you two gentlemen/women seem intelligent I'll explain this sequentially.

1. Join a run, player clears arena floor with a nitronome. Doesn't gather any heat that now sticks around.
2. Players invite anchor.
3. Players go solo from anchor.
4. Collect heat. Rejoin anchor go solo. Regather heat.
Rinse repeat. Congratulations.

Even with a two minute despawn it'd be too easy to gain three to four times the heat for the level than was intended. That would be the official reason. When looping get's eliminated from the game then they'd be able to remove this function. Until then, no matter what you say or think is correct it STILL isn't a bug.

Please keep in mind if you're caught looping you will be banned as it is a clear cut violation of TOS.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 20:40

Master-Of

Yes, I assumed that. That's

Yes, I assumed that. That's why I wrote "so it must be coding issues, to be overcome".
The game can obviously transfer certain information between instances (player position, opened gates, etc.). So it is possible to also transfer a heat value that way or other. However, it is possible that the programmer has to refactor a lot of things in order to store the heat per player instead of per party. I understand that this is probably not a top priority, since it is somehow working, as it is. Though, everyone can see, if one looks closely, that it is not working as it should and people who noticed that will worry a lot about removing players from a party or, if they are evil, use it as a means to harass others by removing them from the party right before the elevator, so they are all alone and loose all their heat.
Again, there is no valid logical reason for this being as wrong as it is at the moment.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:04

Master-Of

Then heat embers on the floor should vanish upon "go solo"

@Repartee:
Then heat embers on the floor should vanish upon "go solo" or "remove from party", so people cannot create new "instances" with all the heat still on the floor by joining and going solo.

However, this looping problem seems to be still existent, at the moment, just slightly different: Player A can still go solo and the heat remains on the floor at the moment. This means Player B could join, then go solo. Then player A collects heat, finishes, joins B and goes solo. Then player B collects heat, finishes, joins A and goes solo. ...

In your original example, just with my suggestions for solving the bug implemented, someone will join, collect all heat, go solo, finish and cash it in. He or someone else will join again, all the heat has already been collected and he does not get it from the party, because the remaining party member(s) collected it before he joined and it's stored per player, he can go solo and finish, but didn't get heat. Problem solved.

See, there is no valid logical reason for this being as wrong as it is at the moment.

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 21:31

#10

Repartee

@Desouler

All of which are true and valid suggestions. However, it is still not considered a bug so much as an attempt to stop malicious use of game mechanics. So it's functioning as intended.

As for the means of keeping the heat.

It's not an issue of starting with the heat that the original players gathered. As soon as it's gathered you cannot benefit from the amount the other players have collected. It will start you at zero as you join, the main point of contention was leaving heat uncollected to allow you to gather it without working for it. The main idea was to prevent abuse in any form of leaving the party, as it wouldn't cause you to lose the heat. That way no one would be intentionally removed from the party to allow the looping to be abused in the first place either by choice or purposeful eviction.

But the main point of contention was not design and functionality as opposed to it being the incorrect forum for this topic to be discussed. Coding and enforcing the rules of the game are different than a bug that is outside of design and not working as intended.

But thank you for bringing up those points, all of which you said would be better utilized on the suggestions forum. Which I will thank you for having had made a post there.

Thanks,

-Repartee

Sun, 10/02/2011 - 22:42

#11

Nicoya-Kitty

And yet you keep crowns when

And yet you keep crowns when you go solo, and crown looping is a much bigger issue than heat looping ever was.

I just can't imagine someone being that desperate for heat that they'd waste piles of CE looping for it. If you're going F2P it's pretty tough to make enough crowns to craft a 4* by the time a 3* piece hits lvl 5, and likewise for a 4* piece hitting lvl 10. If you're P2P, it'd be easier to just buy some 5* gear off someone for the insane unbinding cost, and then who cares if it doesn't have full heat for a few days, it still works just fine.

Mon, 10/03/2011 - 07:46

#12

Master-Of

You're right. Heat is just

You're right. Heat is just very valuable for a player, if he wants to craft over several stages in a short time. Otherwise it comes bit by bit, anyways.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 10:05

#13

Blandaxt

solution

a solution to this problem is to just go with your friends that you know in a run, or just be the party leader. this way you wont have to worry being kicked of and if your the party leader, you will have no worries. hehee. another fact i want to bring up is why is it the programers, could not make a copy of the dungeon in real time as you are leaving the party or being kicked of. that is an issue i would like to research into.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 10:10

#14

Blandaxt

forgot...:(

i forgot to mention, i am not sure but i do not think there is a party leader transfer. that way the group will not be affected when the leader goes afk or disconnects. can anyone tell if there is, and if there isnt, there should be one where either the party leader chooses from the gruop who he/she wants to be the leader or where all 3 party member can vote to chose a different leader from the party members. at least that way it can lessen the conflict of having the party leader having all of the dictatorship.

Thu, 11/10/2011 - 10:12

#15

Blandaxt

forgot...:(

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 05:25

#16

Asukalan

Bump since its important

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Heat lost when going solo or being removed from a party