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Switch around IMF and FSC

19 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/03/2013 - 05:26
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

The problem, as she goes:

  • Everyone runs FSC constantly because it gives the most profit.
  • FSC is too easy.
  • The "final boss" can be defeated very easily by simply bringing Blitz Needle and Shivermist.

How do we solve this?

  • Decrease FSC profits.
  • Make the final area be more challenging. Give it a harder status than fire because fire is for babies.
  • Make the final boss resistant to piercing damage.

More to the point, make FSC a T2 boss lair. In its place, bump up IMF to T3. The final lair will now be considerably less spammed because people hate IMF. Since the place is more about timing and puzzling than bringing the most overpowered gear possible, just derping in with a Blitz Needle will do little for you, IMF's boss is very resistant to both Blitz and Shivermist.

There is the matter of FSC having 5 floors while IMF only has 3. For starters, we remove the first floor from FSC. The one where you run north and glitch your way through gates and wheel launchers and people like to summon a GM because they botched up exploiting statues. Make it an IMF level instead, and FSC will simply start out at Charred Court. The IMF level will feature quicksilvers in place of oilers, retrodes and gremlins in place of zombies, and a couple of mecha knights in place of each Trojan. Shadow fire is replaced by shock pads, statue puzzles are replaced with switch-and-gate shenanigans which should require little effort to redesign. Alternatively, just keep the statue puzzles. Wheel launchers are of course replaced by rocket launchers. Instead of breaking them, you navigate your way behind them and press a switch to disable them.

Now IMF and FSC both have 4 floors going for them. You could add a fifth floor to IMF if you wish, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. So what'd we solve with this?

  • FSC has less profits since it's a T2 lair. IMF probably wouldn't reach up to previous FSC standards either, making spamming the final area less attractive.
  • The final lair now has shock instead of fire. There is no gunslinger and swordsman armour with naturally occuring shock resistance, nor is there for bombs until you get to IMF's Shadow Lair, which is basically the final Shadow Lair if you do this. As a result, non-class armours like Gray Feather and Mercurial would be more attractive. IMF is also filled with rockets that cannot be defeated through brute force. As a result, defensive armours would be of higher value there.
  • The final boss is resistant to blitz, hazes and brandish explosions. Timing and experience would be the determining factor in defeating the final boss rather than relying on an cheat-bomb and/or absurdly overpowered weaponry.

I also believe that gremlin weaponry about to destroy Haven makes for a much better climax than fighting some guy who died in some war a thousand years ago.

Edit: Someone's going to bring up that Vana token items are 5* and Roarmie items are 2*. Just make the Vana token items 4* so you can't pass 5* Hall of Heroes with them and also they give less profits when sold. Noone cares about them. In sharp contrast, Pulsars and VT are very desirable items so it makes sense to get them from the final boss.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 05:43
#1
Zaffy-Laffy's picture
Zaffy-Laffy

Not to say you are wrong but, I'm sure that FSC is filled with booty because of the large number of zombies in it. Nom Nom Nom, just a slash and they are basically pinatas filled with golden chocolate coins and small heart candies.

Reducing the profit earned from FSC can and will lead to a deflation rate, which though everyone might be supportive on, may not be such a good idea. Not to say inflation is good, but deflation is no better than inflation.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 05:51
#2
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
mmm.

I strongly doubt that this is a good idea. I mean, vana is shaped to be the final boss; he has more characterization that everything in the game, making it far more last boss-ly that the RT. they could fit too, because they are built to destroy haven and such, but we need to make more suspance on that before getting in the last boss-ly section. also, you know, they are too weak to make a stand to a DA. and think of pepperbox. that is the needle for this one. and it would actually fit, because you don't need to shield on RT vulnerable state. so, you need to change everything on the RT before bumping them to be last boss.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 05:51
#3
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

The twins are easier than blitzing Vana unless your party has attention disorder.
Replace the scuttlebots with something challenging.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 06:16
#4
Raptorsevens's picture
Raptorsevens
Ehm. Ironclaw Munitions

Ehm.

Ironclaw Munitions Factory.

Is REALLY, REALLY easy.
The bosses don't even actively attack you.

I say switch the ironclaw munitions factory with royal jelly palace kthxbai

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 07:02
#5
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

This would work perfectly, right down to the lore behind the bosses. Is Almire really that important to the storyline, moreso than the Gremlins? (if he is and the Developers have yet to release that, then hmmm)

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 07:09
#6
Wu-Wei's picture
Wu-Wei
Well..

They could always make Tier 1, 2 and 3 missions of ALL the bosses, same as OCH.
That would be a nice challenge.. being able to play Snarby, JK, RT at Tier 3 difficulty.

Then it won't mess with the story-line, just different difficulties you can play the bosses at. Awesoness. Spanktastic.

.. Hey wait.. That is shadow lairs.. almost.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 07:19
#7
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Thinking about it, quicksilvers would be perfect. Their random supercharge would mess up everything.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 08:49
#8
Il-Titanium-Il's picture
Il-Titanium-Il
If it switches to gremlin ,

If it switches to gremlin , quicksilver ,etc... , people will find another weapons or another way of fighting , FSC is easy cuz everyone knew it's secrets , but in comparison with other T3 Missions , it's hard ..

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 09:33
#9
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Shock is definitely more annoying than fire. Menders can heal themselves unlike silkwings.
And altought FSC does have a few slimes here and there, IMF has a more balanced ratio of gremlins/constructs, with opposite resistances.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 12:56
#10
Xspiral-Ace's picture
Xspiral-Ace
However..

The use of shock is annoying and it will make it more harder than it has to be. For example, the prestige mission "Ghosts in the Machine" is very hard due to the constant shock damage. Plus, the shock effect prevents knights from attacking, charging, or guarding. Many knights would end up dying and abandon the mission since they can not get anywhere. The FSC mission is hard enough due to the numerous of enemies and the amount of lag it gives off.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:21
#11
Putkinen's picture
Putkinen
Meh.

FSC is only easy because the enemy AI blows. Running in a tiny circle is enough to keep zombies from lunging. If you made the game hard in the highest tier, the kids/less than perfect latency players would just quit since they wouldn't be able to handle it anymore. If you nerfed the blatantly overpowered weapons, people would [wheel] and quit over it. There's no winning here.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 14:23
#12
Whats-His-Face
Derp.

FSC used to give 13kcr per run.
Yeah
13k
They nerfed it down to only 8kcr.
GG

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 15:57
#13
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Thunder-The-Bright

Pepperbox is indeed a Blitz Needle for Roarmies. I use it all the time there. However, Pepperbox is inherently weaker than Blitz. Not only does it not deal effective damage to anything, but Pepper's neutral damage is lower than Blitz' neutral damage.

As a comparison, my VH damage Pepperbox does 160 per bullet on Vanaduke. Some guy with a Blitz Needle I went to Vana with did 280. The difference is pretty obscene.

@Little-Juances
Quicksilvers are a great idea! Mecha Knights would also work.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 16:07
#14
Horseclaw's picture
Horseclaw
Why not Royal jelly

Royal jelly = more powerful than IMF, and IMF is a later mission. Answer: make Royal jelly T3 (P.S. If Ironclaw Munitions Factory is made T3, it would be Darkfang Munitions Factory. Why? Because T2 gremlins are Ironclaw, and T3 gremlins are Darkfang. (P.P.S Vanaduke would not be Fiend if made weak to pierce. Why? Because Fiends are weak to pierce and resistant to shadow. Right now, Vanaduke is weak to none and resistant to all special damage types (shadow, pierce, elemental). Therefore, making him fall into the "no type" camp, not "Fiend" or "Undead" :P)).

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:26
#15
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Horseclaw

People need to stop spreading this false rumour about Vanaduke not being weak to piercing.

-Nitronome and DBB do the same damage against neutral targets.
-DBB does more damage than Nitro to Vanaduke.
-Q.E.D.

And the same goes for the mask. The mask is weak to normal, not not-resistant. Nitronome does more damage to the mask than to Vana's normal form and zombies.

Anyways, old royal jelly was totally tougher than Vanaduke and would make a decent final boss. However, as the best weapon against Royal Jelly is a bomb, DR would probably get nerfed because OOO can only nerf a weapon if it is a bomb.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:31
#16
Klipik's picture
Klipik

So let me get this straight...

-The "final boss" of the game will be the Roarmulus Twins. Which can be killed, solo, in under a minute.
-The gremlins will build their ultimate war machine, created for an attack on haven, in the lowest levels of the clockworks for the longest possible travel time to haven.
-The hardest boss will give 2* weapons, and the second-hardest will give 4* weapons and gear.
-Ancient plate armor will be completely useless, because it will be a 4* armor with no 5* upgrade. Like the Winmillion.

Besides that, putting 2* gear as a reward for a 5*/T3 boss seems unfitting. Yes, this has happened in the past, the "Congratulations you beat the hardest thing in the game now here's the equivalent of a baby, grow it into something awesome" theory of game design. However, that only works if it's the final, final, final boss. And whatever the last boss is right now isn't the last boss the game will ever have (hopefully), or at least not the end of the storyline.

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 17:34
#17
Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder

If you want to switch the levels, then that means you have to rename the mission, change the tokens, change the story, change the SL versions of them and more I guess.

The story is important. Otherwise, the game story won't make sense. People will actually think that one machine is Vana and the other is Duke. I would lol if that happened. Just sayin :P

Wed, 04/03/2013 - 21:10
#18
Addisond's picture
Addisond

Lol, I kinda agree with this on the grounds that the inhabitants of the IMF are more dangerous than the zombies in FSC. But at the same time, the boss is pathetic (in easiness, he's fun when you first start running it). Also, the entire area would have to be redesigned significantly.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 05:25
#19
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

@Skyguarder
Please explain what party of the story would be changed at all from having Vanaduke be a T2 boss and IMF a T3 one and why that'd be super hard to alter.

@Klipik
Would you rather have a Polaris or Fang of Vog? Most of the time? In Lockdown? Do you think most people would? IMF's token rewards are generally much better than FSC's.

Ancient Plate stuff was junk anyway, but that being said they could still keep the exact same stats as they currently have.

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